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Are web development development bootcamps worth it?

 

by @jasonmwomack | 5yr  | 27 comments

I am contemplating if attending a full time web dev boot camp is worth it ? My goal is to become an expat or digital nomad , after enhancing my programming knowledge through a web development boot camp . Are they worth the price tag ? If so , which ones are highly notable? All suggestions and thoughts are definitely welcomed!

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@nancyliang | 5yr

I think itโ€™s worthit, but depends on which one you go through. I had a bad experience with General Assembly, but everything else seemed good.

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@toshuo | 5yr

Assuming itโ€™s one of the best schools, like App Academy, Hack Reactor or Hacker School, then yes. Itโ€™s absolutely worth it if you want to be a software engineer. The amount of work they put someone through just wouldnโ€™t be feasible for someone who didnโ€™t really have a strong desire to do that career, though.

Nothing you learn from an intensive in person school is magical and you can definitely learn all the skills they teach on your own. It will probably take you about three times as many hours to get there though. Assuming you wonโ€™t be able to keep up 12+ study days without the bootcamp environment, Iโ€™d say youโ€™re realistically looking about about 2-3 years to get to the level that a top school would get you to in 3 months.

For reference, I attended one of those as an advanced beginner and came out with offers from multiple top tier Silicon Valley tech companies. And at that time, my school had a relatively limited program to help us get hired. It was just the hard skills I acquired were enough to get my through the interviews once I managed to get one foot in the door. And obviously after taking one of those positions, my career options if I wanted to work full-time are a world apart from what they were before.

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I just want to add that I wouldnโ€™t care either way if the founders themselves are web developers or not. I care about my teachers. The founders should be more business minded, no? Itโ€™s like a teacher running a school. Most principles/head teachers havenโ€™t taught in decades because they go the admin route. Some arenโ€™t even teachers, per sรฉ.

I think comparing online GA vs WDI GA isnโ€™t the same. ALL online courses are going to spoon feed you things. Itโ€™s hard to prompt people of differing abilities to think online.

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@anon72215238 | 5yr

Any-one here tried Career Foundry:

http://careerfoundry.com/courses/how-to-become-a-web-developer#pricing

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

If youโ€™re good at working on your own and not getting much support to help you learn, then something like careerfoundry is a good option. not everyone learns well that way though.

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@sanelo | 5yr

Interested in this one as well. Hopefully we can get some feedback on this course and if it is worth it.

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@wanderingdev Did you look at Tea Leaf? Iโ€™m currently leaning toward them (online, I could do it from Phuket and I need a change from India, ubercheap, and claims to have a more in-depth rails curriculum than the competition), but itโ€™d be awesome to get some feedback from someone whoโ€™s been there.

Nearest comparison is probably the entire Tealeaf sequence (http://www.gotealeaf.com/curriculum#!production-apps) vs. the WDI course (https://generalassemb.ly/education/web-development-immersive/hong-kong) โ€ฆwhat do you think?

I doubt I could afford GA at the moment, but Iโ€™d wait for that or one of the US camps if there were a compelling reason to save up for it. At the moment, Tealeaf seems so cheap I might as well do it while Iโ€™m saving up for something else. Like you and others on this thread, Iโ€™m not pushing myself hard enough to learn back-end dev from the online tutorials. I need something more structured, and Iโ€™m hoping Tealeaf wonโ€™t be something I slack on :smile:

Background: years of Drupal site building, project management, information architecture, and theming (front-end dev). Light sysadmin work in recent years. Looks increasingly like full-stack dev is the direction I need to move in for a more nomadic lifestyle and a better project pipeline. I would have preferred Node, but Rails will do to start.

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

If you can make yourself actually do it, online classes can be great. They donโ€™t work for me. Itโ€™s hard for me to focus, itโ€™s hard for me to get motivated, the slow responses when I have questions really makes it hard to move forward.

The course seems expensive. I would probably start with treehouse or code school first which is significantly cheaper and also has good content. See if it really works for you before dropping that much cash.

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@worldtravel | 5yr

I should saw that w3school is even recommended by GAโ€ฆitโ€™s a resources. I like stackoverflow betterโ€ฆ

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

My instructors at GA emphatically told us to never use w3schools as a resource and so has every other dev Iโ€™ve ever mentioned it to. Itโ€™s not respected, not up to date, scammy and frequently outright wrong. http://www.w3fools.com/

Your experience doesnโ€™t mirror mine at all. One of the things I LIKE about GA is that theyโ€™re not a one trick pony like most dev bootcamp type schools. The education I got there both at WDI and through weekend courses has been top notch and I was offered a job as a dev on the day I graduated. One of the best things about them is that they are constantly changing to reflect the demands of the industry. My class had a very strong Ruby focus while the upcoming class is much more JS based because that is where the demand is.

Businesses donโ€™t last without people who can hustle and sell. But those arenโ€™t the people teaching the classes. My instructors had a cumulative 25+ years of development experience between them and they were great. They also arenโ€™t just in for churn and burn and donโ€™t accept everybody. I am friends with the admission people and weโ€™ve had lots of conversations about the process and how many people they actually turn away or postpone for entry until theyโ€™ve got the appropriate skills to succeed. I also like that, unlike most bootcamps, they donโ€™t get kickbacks from the employers hiring the grads. That makes them very employer neutral and just invested in getting you a job you love.

Itโ€™s unfortunate that your experience wasnโ€™t that great but everyone I know who has attended raves about it.

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@anon72215238 | 5yr

What sort of skills do I need to get in? Right now I canโ€™t program. I know HTML and most CSS (not the advanced CSS3 stuff). I can also edit a bit of JS or PHP code, but couldnโ€™t write it.

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@worldtravel | 5yr

most of my experience with them has been onlineโ€ฆ I think the in-person classes are probably much better

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@worldtravel | 5yr

Iโ€™d like to see some talented developers great a nomad/ mobile web development school.

What I dislike about GA is that it was founded not by web development people but by people that know how to hustle and sell, and people that could get a lot of VC moneyโ€ฆI lived in NYC when they first started; GA has grown so fast and is offering every type of course imaginableโ€ฆand I think the quality has suffered a lotโ€ฆ

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@worldtravel | 5yr

the last part of that I will say honestly, I donโ€™t knowโ€ฆ but I think with the learning thingโ€ฆ to have motivation only because you paid a lot for something and needing the structure I donโ€™t think is so good all the timeโ€ฆ these companies like General Assembly is a very inefficient and expense way to learn I thinkโ€ฆ they spoon feed it to you in a way I think that gives you more confidence and about what you are learningโ€ฆ but they leave a lot of important stuff outโ€ฆ it really seems to me, and this is my feelingโ€ฆ is that they are trying to make tons of money by pushing people through courses and trying to make it as easy as they canโ€ฆ sell as much as they can. A company run by hipsters; not real programmers โ€ฆ from my research none of the founders has a technical background or knows programing or markup languages. They are great hustlers, markets and social engineers and I have to give them respect for taking over the world so quicklyโ€ฆ but there quality
has suffered.

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

Clearly you have no firsthand knowledge of GA or how it worksโ€ฆ

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@worldtravel | 5yr

Well Iโ€™ve spent almost $3000 on courses from GA since they started as a companyโ€ฆits not my thingโ€ฆif itโ€™s something right for you;well great. But my advice to people is to look at all the other options out thereโ€ฆGA does a good job of selling people on their overpriced courses that donโ€™t provide value to everyone.

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@worldtravel | 5yr

I donโ€™t think you should ever let one program or one person be the only ones that teach youโ€ฆgeneral assembly feeds you the information in a limited wayโ€ฆ I think itโ€™s better to learn from people less interested in trying to sell you something and get you through there programโ€ฆI like www.skillshare.comโ€ฆusing stackoverflow and w3school as good resourcesโ€ฆ

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

do not EVER use w3schools! that site is horrific! There are great online resources out there but that is not one of them. But, online learning doesnโ€™t work for everyone.

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@anon72215238 | 5yr

I tried learning how to program from some textbooks and I also joined Codecademy and Team Treehouse. However, alone in the cafe with a latte and my other apps I was not motivated. If I am in a classroom and have spent a lot of money to learn how to program, I think I will have no choice but to apply myself.

But my question is this, if I learn to program in JS and become handy in PHP etc can I really earn enough doing freelance projects in order to support myself if I need a backup income? Or do I have to be โ€œall inโ€ and devote myself to programming?

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

I was the same way. I tried to learn on my own for over a year. that kind of learning just doesnโ€™t work for me. For some people itโ€™s great and more power to them.

the answer is: maybe. it depends on your skill level. You donโ€™t have to be all in but you do have to keep up with changing technologies to stay competitive, which is time consuming if it isnโ€™t your primary thing.

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

Yes. As travelrawr said, I attended the General Assembly WDI and it was one of the best decisions I could have made. You come out still needing to learn a lot so immediately finding a remote job might be a challenge but itโ€™ll position you well for becoming a nomad. I was really lucky with my job. I got an offer on graduation day (because I busted ass to position myself well for it) with a company that allowed me to nomad in europe for 3 months just a couple months after starting and now Iโ€™m working in their Colombia office through the end of the year. I tried learning online on my own and it didnโ€™t work for me. I learned more in the first week at GA than I did in almost a year of studying online.

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@anon72215238 | 5yr

Would General Assembly WDI be beneficial for someone who just want to become a freelancer on UpWork or get work through referrals? It is not cheap and seems to promote the full time job at the end of the tunnel angle.

I already have income from my online business, I just want to learn JS and related languages in order to have a backup career or to switch from online entrepreneurship to a freelance programmer if I get burnt out.

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@wanderingdev | 5yr

honestly, no if you donโ€™t want it to be a dev, I wouldnโ€™t spend the money on a dev bootcamp. Theyโ€™re expensive, stressful and tiring. Youโ€™ll learn a lot but youโ€™ll still have a lot to learn when you graduate and if you donโ€™t actively use what you learned, youโ€™ll lose it.

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@anon72215238 | 5yr

Ok, it is not for me at this time. Thanks for your input.

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@nixsiow | 5yr

I am General Assembly WDI alumni and it was great. Definitely worth the money if you are looking to shorten your learning curve as a beginner with the help of mentor and your fellow course mate. I want to be digital nomad as well, still learning. Good luck!

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@wanderingdev actually encouraged me to apply for the General Assembly Web Development Immersive. I start next month. Iโ€™ll let you know once Iโ€™ve finished.

She completed it last year and will happily give you some feedback, Iโ€™m sure. :slight_smile:

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@norydev | 5yr

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: i donโ€™t know about โ€œweb dev bootcampsโ€ in general. I did Le Wagon in Brussels earlier this year and it was totally worth the price: teachers/staff super competent and helpful, great pedagogical model, lots of networking opportunities with the local tech startup community, students from all over with great mindset. The goal of Le Wagon is to train entrepreneurs to code so that they can make their ideas themselves. It is more than just learn to code. I totally recommend it.
(And i am not paid by them in any way to say this)

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Read and participate in 14,019 discussions on Nomad List

Suggested topics

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I dream of being a digital nomad? How do I do it?


by @programmingmark | 7mo 7 months ago | 2 comments

Hello digital nomad!

I dream of being an independent digital nomad. But it feels very elusive & unattainable with my success rate. In full disclosure, whilst I have dreamed about making money online since high school; I have not earned a single cent making money online. $0, nada, zilch!! On the contrary, I have spent a lot of time & money on books, podcasts. Even though I have spent a lot of time reading/listening to others, I do not have anything to show for it!

I have made attempts in the past to start an online business, but these fizzle out quite quickly when I do not see traction especially when the goal I have set myself is too high.

Instead of reaching for the ultimate nomadic lifestyle goal, I want to start much smaller. Really small! I am simply looking to make $50 profit per month from a new online business. Thatโ€™s it.

I need some advice from you please!

  • Is $50 profit too low? How long did it take you to earn $50 profit per month?

  • What is a good way of achieving this goal?

Thanks
Mark
aka the $0 online business entrepreneur

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Best way to create a company as web dev freelancer to work with French companies


by @faby | 1yr 1 year ago | 4 comments

Iโ€™m French and Iโ€™m leaving Paris and my current full time job. In a few month, Iโ€™ll move to Bali to be a fresh digital nomad in web development. I learn about the different possibilities to create my own business and I would have feedbacks. whatโ€™s the best ? Iโ€™ve an opportunity to work with my actual french company as a freelancer, remotly, on specific missions.
But I donโ€™t know If I have to create my company in France to continue working with them or maybe one in Singapour like with sleek.sg. I donโ€™t know if itโ€™s it easy to work with a french company with a singapore company. I then plan to find other missions with fewer time differences, (Australia โ€ฆ)

If someone could help me :slight_smile: thanks!

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I've got where 8 days to get from Tallinn to London - where should I visit?


in Tallinn, Estonia by @kaizenpreneur | 3yr 2 years ago | 3 comments

Iโ€™m heading to Tallinn next month to pick up my e-residency. Iโ€™ve built some time into my schedule, giving me 8 days or so to get from Tallinn to London for a meeting.

Looking for ideas on what route to take / places to visit or if there any good DN locations on-route.

One of my current ideas is to travel to Stockholm and take the train down to Copenhagen and then potentially the train down to Hamburg before train/fly to London.

But Iโ€™m open to suggestions and happy to fly or train it.

Thanks in advanceโ€ฆ

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What kind of work do digital nomad web developers do?


by @cryberg | 3yr 2 years ago | 8 comments

Hi everyone! Iโ€™m thinking of making the jump from being an office-bound web developer to freelancing instead. I was hoping to talk to some of you who do freelance web dev while living a nomadic lifestyle.

Iโ€™m at a bit of a loss, because when Iโ€™ve tried looking for posts about this kind of lifestyle, the majority of what Iโ€™ve found is for web designers or Wordpress developers, which are both pretty different from being a developer who likes to work with React or whatever other framework.

So for those of you who are living my dream right now:
Are you usually building Wordpress sites, or more often using a framework like React or Ruby on Rails? Or something else entirely?

What types of contracts do you take on? Ecommerce? Building blogs?
Are they on-going, or one-off projects?

How do you get clients while on the road? Is it mostly Upwork or word of mouth?

I have a ton of questions, and would greatly appreciate hearing about your experiences. Thank you!

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Kindergarten experience for DN families. Know a worth-considering place?


by @alexku | 3yr 3 years ago | 1 comment

Hey guys. At the moment I and my wife have two sons - 4 and 1.5 yo. We spent 5 months in 7 Asian countries last winter. Lack of kindergarten was the number one problem. Thatโ€™s the only one reason that stops nomading all the time.
This time weโ€™d like to do the same on another continent. Weโ€™re thinking about Latin America or Africa. We need a good kindergarten and beautiful safe place with good warm weather.
Ideal scenario - Montessori preschool in not too dry but green place with the temperature about 23-30ยฐC/70-90ยฐF.
Could you please share your experience or the useful information from the friends or relatives?

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Hotel Tracking Website


by @yl_ksa | 4yr 3 years ago | 3 comments

I was wondering if anyone knows a website to keep track of the hotels I have stayed in, I really like to keep track of everything. I have a couple of websites to track each flight I took and was wanted to see if there is something similar but for hotels.

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Is there a website for Career Counselling for Digital Nomads


by @imabhimallik | 4yr 3 years ago | 0 comments

For digital nomads, there are few specific platforms for specific info like-
Finances and Investments - NomadCapitalist
Dating - Nomad Soulmates
Travel - Digital nomad travel mag

I am a budding digital nomad and looking forward to going completely online and serve as a digital marketer. Is there a site dedicated to career counselling of nomads? i.e. which offers guidance on selection of online courses followed by awareness on various remote job sites and freelancing platforms.

Kindly advise!

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Worth waiting until getting to Asia to buy gadgets?


by @skewed_corp | 4yr 3 years ago | 7 comments

Iโ€™m ticking off my lists before I venture off again and am starting to purchase stuff like 4G Routers, Wireless speakers, Mice, etc.

The only thing isโ€ฆ all of the stuff is shipped from Asia in the first place. Are all these gadgets readily available in a place like Bangkok and is it worth waiting to save on costs?

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Is Flying Business Class to Asia Worth it?


by @iamjamesrodgers | 4yr 4 years ago | 10 comments

Flying soon from Toronto YYZ to ICN Seoul so, most likely Asiana but maybe Korean Air.

Read a few of the websites/blog post reviews for both Airlines -Seems nice. First/Suite Class seems a little bit lacking in value proposition for me. But feel like Iโ€™m kind of at a point in life where I want to fly upgraded just to have an experience with it.

But from your experience as a nomad is it really worth doing?
โ€ฆ Maybe Iโ€™ve been home for too long haha.

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Have you been to Santiago de Chile? How was it?


in Santiago, Chile by @andreadardon | 4yr 4 years ago | 6 comments

With my boyfriend weโ€™re on a year long trip and weโ€™re currently in Europe. But weโ€™re thinking about going down to Chile to change environments (and because Schengen).
Weโ€™re both fluent in Spanish, and I am Central American, but Iโ€™d like to know what Chileโ€™s like for digital nomads: internet speeds, coworking spaces, commuting, safety, etc.

Also, how easy/cheap is it to fly to other South American cities?

Any recommendations, stories or thoughts are welcomed :slightly_smiling:

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Starting a SaaS website with paid service -- Best practices for setting up payment collection? (from US)


by @dedalux | 4yr 4 years ago | 4 comments

Over the past few months I started doing javascript development work and Iโ€™m trying to build projects for my portfolio. Iโ€™m working on a productivity tool that would have a paid tier for users and Iโ€™m not sure about the best practices for setting up this up for myself in terms of tax efficiency and ways to incorporate.

Right now itโ€™s only me who works on this and I project a modest user base in the beginning with perhaps a few hundred dollars of revenues that I would like to expand ideally. Iโ€™m looking at services like Stripe which has an option for individuals without the need for incorporation.

Meanwhile Iโ€™d like to reach to a point where I can hire some people to develop with me and run operations if thereโ€™s more steady cash flow coming in. Fundraising is also of course an option on the table. I donโ€™t foresee a lot of potential for legal liabilities with this project but Iโ€™d like to be personally protected. Iโ€™d Hence I think incorporation is inevitable down the road.

Iโ€™m not sure if I should incorporate as early as possible, since there is some costs associated with this. But if I were to do this, with US status, I am wondering what should I be looking for to ensure that I can run this well in the long run. If any nomads have had experience with the business side of a personal start-up project Iโ€™d love to hear your opinion and experiences.

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What are the best places to meet other web entrepreneurs in Kuala Lumpur and Penang?


in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia by @yliasm | 4yr 4 years ago | 0 comments

Hi everyone,
Iโ€™ll be in Malaysia from mid-July onwards and would love to meet other web entrepreneurs. Iโ€™ll be roaming in the country for a month but will probably stay a bit in KL and Penang. According to your experience, what are the best places to meet web entrepreneurs in these two cities?
Iโ€™m particularly looking for web entrepreneurs but if you have suggestions to meet any other entrepreneurs, Iโ€™ll be glad to read it :slight_smile:
Thanks for all your answers,
Cheers!
HW.

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Do you lock your computer when you get up from it?


by @anon82020850 | 5yr 4 years ago | 16 comments

Hi all,

I have noticed that it is very common in coworking places to see computers which are not locked. The owner will get up and go for a walk, or even go out for lunch for a couple of hours and leave their computer unlocked.

I find this strange because it basic gives anyone access to your computer and all the information that is on it - mail accounts, social media accounts, your password manager etc, so it poses a potentially huge security risk.

For me personally I worked in corporates many times and there you can get into big trouble if you leave your workstation unlocked. It is part on my muscle memory now - when I get up I lock the computer. On Windows it is so easy because you can just press Win+L and the computer is locked.

So I am curious - do you lock your computer when you get up? Is it just something you have not thought about before, or do you think no-one will mess with your computer in a public place?

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We're starting a coworking and coliving space in India. Can you help us validate it?


in India by @anugrah_sharma | 5yr 4 years ago | 12 comments

We are starting a co-working and co-living space (something like hubud) in Dharamshala, India; I would like to ask couple of questions to validate the concept:-

  1. Would you consider living in India for a while?

  2. We will be charging around 500 USD, which will cover everything including food,laundry,basic bed room and a beautiful working space. How willing are you to pay this amount?

  3. Have any advice for us? Do share.

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What countries do you visit?


by @mikepark | 5yr 4 years ago | 7 comments

Iโ€™m planning on going to Brazil first. Ideally I want to live there for at least a year but Visa rules for US citizens only allow 90 days max. So Iโ€™m thinking of going to Thailand and Philippines afterwards. I donโ€™t really want to come back to the US for a whileโ€ฆ
So it got me thinking:

Which countries do you travel to? do you come back when your visa expires? or do you just go to a different country with a new visa and just keep applying for visas for different countries?

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Can I show an e-ticket on my smartphone instead of printing it?


by @nunoarruda | 5yr 4 years ago | 5 comments

Do you nomads still print your tickets and/or reservation emails? Anyone travelling with everything on your smartphone?

I still see many airlines asking to print tickets or reservation emails for check-in but canโ€™t I just show them on my phone? Did any of you had any problems with not printing stuff and instead showing everything on your smartphone?

Airlines might have different policies I thinkโ€ฆ

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What's an alternative to TripIt?


by @kathrynoh | 5yr 4 years ago | 8 comments

Iโ€™ve been using the Tripit app for all my travel arrangements but donโ€™t really find the interface that intuitive. Iโ€™d much prefer to work with things that are more visual.

I do download to my google calendar but even that isnโ€™t great because most of the detail goes into a drop down esp in the monthly view and gets hidden.

Are there any apps that can organise your travel details but have a visual/colour coded interface? Iโ€™d also like something that dropped off old details once they were complete.

Actually, my ideal (and Iโ€™m not sure if it exists) would include my trip details but have some kind of flag for gaps in my intinerary (eg. if Iโ€™ve got hotels booked in different cities but no transport between them or flights but no accommodation booked).

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Can people recommend any eco-villages for visit?


by @skatkov | 5yr 4 years ago | 7 comments

I have this stupid dream of building my own house in a eco-village (yeah, with my own hands). Iโ€™ve seen two villages and found people there very inspirational, they not only told me about their experiences with building eco-house, but they are willing to give me a hand with building one if i plan to move in.

I know itโ€™s not a usual idea for digital nomad to have a house. But group is very diverse - i already meet couple of nomads who have house in eco-villages, but they still keep on travelling with occasional retreat back home. So, maybe you guys have experience visiting those kind of villages? or building your eco-house somewhere outside big cities?

Or maybe where is some eco-digital-nomad-village somewhere already ?:smile:

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I'm going to New York City, any digital makers spots to visit?


in New York City, United States by @litanin | 5yr 5 years ago | 2 comments

Hi, i am going to New York for the first time in my life, but i have only 7 days (one full week starting on Oct 10). Apart of well known tourist spots (The Statue of Liberty, central park, broadway, 7th av etc) i also want somehow to get into digital makers environment to feel the spirit, speed and trends. What would be your suggestions to do / visit there?
May be some co-working places or cafes, exhibitions, lectures, anything?

I would really appreciate any suggestions.

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Coworking and coliving space in Mallorca. Any ideas how to populate it?


by @matiasbonet | 5yr 5 years ago | 0 comments

We have set a new coworking/coliving space in Mallorca. It is an entire building with two flats on top and the coworking underneath. It is one block from the beach of bahia de palma.

We have room for 5 people in the coliving (3 rooms 1 private and two doubles) we also have space for 10 people at the coworking (50 Mb of internet and waiting for the new fiber to come and upgrade to 300Mb).

We want to keep it this way to make interactions between the local community and the internationals. We have set up a meetup group to do events and searching for new ideas and people to make a unique space.

Any suggestions?
What would you expect as a digital nomad?

If any of you are around Mallorca please come an visit us.
our website is: bedndesk.com

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