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# _startups53s# _flying4min# _covid197min# _relationships8min# india20min# japan23min# _coders30min# mexico53min# ___general57min# _food1h# _taxes-us1h# ukraine1h# colombia2h# chile2h# _politics2h# vietnam2h# spain2h# _books2h# _show-and-tell2h# italy3h# argentina3h# _bargain-travel3h# budapest4h# bulgaria5h# taiwan5h# thailand5h# _photography6h# _overland-travel6h# _gear7h# _housing8h# sweden9h# _freelance10h# new-zealand10h# bali13h# __roll-call13h# berlin13h# chiang-mai13h# _money15h# _fitness16h# _crypto19h# _javascript23h# _insurance23h# australia1d# montreal1d# _productivity1d# brazil1d# georgia1d# san-francisco1d# _pets2d# _jobs-talk2d# medellin2d# germany3d# canada3d# philippines3d# _language-learning3d# malaysia3d# _taxes-intl4d# _music4d# london4d# _outdoors4d# united-states5d# turkey5d# middle-east5d# singapore5d# peru6d# _legal6d# new-york-city6d# myanmar6d# lisbon7d# south-africa8d# las-palmas8d# switzerland8d# china9d# kuala-lumpur10d# indonesia10d# panama10d# poland11d# costa-rica11d# south-korea11d# paris11d# portugal11d# united-kingdom12d# cambodia12d# hong-kong12d# serbia13d# europe13d# _design14d# egypt14d# toronto16d# greece16d# austin17d# prague17d# croatia18d# _marketing18d# romania19d# laos20d# tel-aviv21d# uruguay21d# estonia22d# _lgbt24d# _podcasts27d# netherlands27d# puerto-rico28d# africa29d# ireland30d# sri-lanka30d# france30d# amsterdam1mo# _parents1mo# israel1mo# guatemala1mo# russia1mo# morocco1mo# _ruby1mo# miami1mo# nicaragua2mo# venezuela2mo# denmark2mo# slovakia2mo# _corona2mo# cuba2mo# north-korea2mo# kazakhstan2mo# malta2mo# qatar2mo# lithuania2mo# ecuador2mo# dominican-republic2mo# slovenia2mo# cyprus3mo# __jobs3mo
qjymfmsomasin #_startups41min
right
ttpsfthfgwiin #_startups41min
easy example Restaurant with 2-3 chargebacks per day across $50+ locations
bfupcpbxrixin #_startups40min
chargeback is often 'goods not received', which means going throguh camera footage and tying to the right customer to prove they did receieve it
psgfwrztnwsin #_startups40min
way too much effort, you're better off just accepting the $15 fee
efbhgzlzydjin #_startups40min
for a digital subscription, your ability to fight and have good evidence is way higher
hvahokin #_startups39min
Gotcha, I just heard that for digital goods it's normally a loss
rdcelpin #_startups39min
even if you can prove it
sexbevgjirqin #_startups39min
honestly, try fighting a few chargebacks
rupqoofknubin #_startups39min
see what the response is and if they poke holes
oomwjwin #_startups39min
I'm just gonnna give it a try to see if I lose it, shouldnt take too much time and I'll learn from it
fhydndapnkwin #_startups39min
they'll at least vaguely tell you why you lost
dmgrhgin #_startups39min
yep, thanks ๐Ÿ™‚
rolszyin #_startups39min
one last question
emjhwdssbvcqszxjin #india38min
vxbpqhelwuyov What incidence?
vfhqxpin #_startups36min
I understand I should be addressing the final bank person and not Stripe's representative? I ask because Stripe emailed me saying I had a dispute saying "Your customer says they were charged after they canceled a subscription". which is bullshit since they just subscribed for the first time, i.e you get charged at the time to subscribe. There's no way to cancel something you haven't paid for yet. I'd understand this on a renewal but it's not the case. Is it worth explaining this at all?
tdvbekin #_startups36min
I assume bank representatives are familiar with subscription models... x)
rrnbyrseskmin #_startups35min
explain, but keep it _very simple_
jrorrrrtoymin #_startups35min
they're probably going to look at it for a few seconds and make a decision, so don't make them put too much effort in
xizertin #_startups35min
Stripe recommends trying to solve it with the person but I'm not sure it's worth emailing them nor what should I say, "hey you disputed a payment straight away, so i'm gonna fight back!"
tvdtdwin #_startups35min
ok
vzsfwyaomwfin #_startups34min
trying to solve it with the person is a waste of time. they have to litterally call their bank and ask them to pause the dispute
ygsahvilapbin #_startups34min
whereas they can usually file a chargeback from a bank app in a minute or two
pchiwxin #_startups34min
this is what happened to me the last 3 times, they agreed they were wrong but i still had to wait months to get the money back I assumed they never paused it
vnwfzmhgtafin #_startups33min
yeah
udptekywbkmin #_startups33min
if the customer agrees, you can use that as evidence, but i think you're better off just putting a very clcear disclaimer, having screenshots of it, etc
ohbmisgauacbkupdin #_startups33min
tzsvpyi Your lost disputes are tracked, you don't want to lose disputes. If you lose a certain percentage of disputes over your total transactions, you can be shut down.
erctpdltkkevyedzin #_startups33min
Win percentage varies but it is usually 30-50%
zgccsvlgqsmin #_startups31min
^ very true, and the dispute threshhold is typically ~1% of transactions
hftstwnjnsbin #_startups31min
above that and you're at risk
hbkcptljscnjktkzin #_startups31min
They also track your win percentage so if you let them all go and your dispute win percentage drops to zero that will probably affect whether they rule against you.
chjlnxin #_startups31min
of total transactions with Stripe?
bvnkptkbyoaozcogin #_coders31min
Iโ€™m more excited about QUIC. Finally the browser will get _real_ high-performance sockets
etzdxdqtakpin #_startups31min
yes
fshftin #japan31min
i like that it takes longer to say. sometimes i feel like i have to say โ€œsorry, sorryโ€ because once just doesnโ€™t feel substantial enough
xdusgmin #_startups31min
I have a lot of transactions
yagacwin #_startups30min
like $5/mo payments and stuff
fnvnfxopynbhxesbin #_coders30min
Also, GraphQL can do some neat stuff. I made a log filter that takes a stream of JSON events and filters them based on a GraphQL query.
hcynpgokrujin #_startups29min
quick exercise for you take a look at refunded vs non-refunded transactions and see what the stripe risk score is on average
fjwshzmwkezwsgzsin #_startups29min
Why don't you have a refund policy?
njqteoin #_startups29min
i'm not sure... it's totally a waste of time but it pissed me off that the app is free to try forever and charge for advanced features and people still come pay and then ask for refunds or like this person who disputes it straight away
lcgafdin #_startups29min
sjouyemvswehvwebc I do, but who reads it?
ljuhiviixjgwajxwin #_startups29min
Do you offer a trial for the advanced features?
qpbcvain #_startups28min
no
wbcczwin #_startups28min
well, it's hard to answer, it's like a quota base model
ftgnoqin #_startups27min
the most important limitation is quantity of X
ditirmkektnin #_startups27min
put a summary of the refund policy in a very obvious place if you want a higher chance of winning
cuzpfqqfzllin #_startups26min
something like that will increase your win percentage substantially
qmhzdbin #_startups26min
Banks do check that to make their decisions?
eimzurin #_startups26min
i'll just try it and link everything
yobnmvqjpin #_flying26min
This is how I do my business meetings now. Canโ€™t be too careful.
iokkusgraknin #_startups26min
you put it as evidence that the customer was clearly shown the policy
zaksyfvbuukiuatyin #_startups26min
For $5/mo payment, this is kind of horrible but essentially if you get people to forget about it they will probably leave it running and won't go through the effort of cancelling it. There have been some studies done to this affect.
wvnkhjrohhytxntfin #_startups25min
That is why sometimes companies will give away 30 day trials for low subscription amounts because they know if they can get the people to forget about it, they probably won't cancel.
qzpaegin #_startups24min
idirmhkmzopqvyrtq problem I have with refunds/disputes is not really recurring payments (I make it super easy to unsubscribe + send them an email) it's with people signing up, getting hyped, paying for the full premium and then 2 days afterwards ask for a refund.
tdejuqakin #japan24min
oh man my fav Japanese phrase has got to be _"So so so so so so..."_
xzxxrgnsesakwgdwin #_startups24min
You could try it out for say 7 days, give a 30 day trial and then roll it back. Then in 30 days see what percentage of those people stuck/refunded/etc..
futcpvin #_startups24min
In that case, I normally gave a refund (even if it broke my policy) because Stripe didn't charge me.
azdjvbnpin #japan23min
Wow that's fascinating
ojvwtoin #_startups23min
But now Stripe will start charging so I just say "hey, this is the refund policy, unless you had a tech issue, you've been using it...i'm sorry". But if people start disputing it maybe I should just refund it because $2 < $15.
fulwaoin #_startups22min
I guess the dispute I'm dealing with right now is quite the outlier... they disputed it straight away
zdkdztjnxeesjtyein #_startups22min
You will always have those people, I send receipts and cancellation instructions in the welcome email as well as documentation to unsubscribe and you will still get those people who don't read any of it.
gpvbczgwpvcmyxgiin #_startups22min
Or, and I hate this the most, people who feel the need to only cancel over the phone.
qshdcpin #_startups21min
that's why I'm like, ugh, I'm just gonna dispute it even if for peace of mind. x) After all I got the data.
oqfowxin #_startups21min
woah... those sound fun.
pwlyulfrin #india20min
Good luck getting out of India. It's the right thing to do at this point, so wish you the best
mafmmmjcotripcuxin #_startups20min
I have a voice mail that says If you are calling to cancel please visit the site or send an email to X, there are still people that will go through other routes to talk to someone real that gives them the exact same instructions.
menjrccetxegmibein #_startups20min
The cheaper the product, the more it will happen.
dutkyuin #_startups19min
how do you deal with storing the data in this situations? F.e a user signs up uses the app for a month, subscribes and uses the app. Then they ask for a refund after a month or smth and they delete their account. Do you soft delete their account? Do you keep their email/name in case you need to prove it's them?
glvhwwvvthmlgukvin #_startups18min
I don't delete anything unless they request me to do it directly.
grsnverrllrjlbaoin #_startups17min
I win disputes just by sending links to my refund/cancellation policy and then state, "Customer never attempt to contact us regarding cancellation"
vzgsrqkuaxmadntyin #_startups17min
Have you ever went through a dispute process yourself?
tpffxxin #_startups17min
but most of them do attempt to contact
vnrvhlin #_startups17min
as a customer you mean?
lktdvprhualbxwcein #_startups17min
Ya
exfpdgin #_startups16min
nope
nddwsrin #_startups16min
but I assume they can appeal somehow to whatever I add in the dispute?
xuhfjsewreapqqpnin #_startups16min
So essentially what happens is you are asked to provide proof (make your case) and then the company makes their case. A mediator who usually just a person looks at the case and makes a decision. So if you sound professional and the person sounds like a dick, you will probably win.
erkvsxdxaacyekzlin #_startups15min
No, neither side sees anything from the other side.
exuwvlofdivyvdbfin #_startups14min
It's not a back and forth. That is why you should have a cancellation/refund policy even if they don't read it, so you can link to it in your dispute response.
jphwoein #_startups14min
yeah, makes sense
rssdopin #_startups14min
I'll just dispute it to learn the process. But I will try to avoid further disputes by giving refunds even if "unfair".
ktnyuzin #_startups13min
(when the customer let's me know they want one, that is!)
rogsowlmcoatcwlcin #_startups13min
I imagine most people's disputes sound like this, "I DIDN'T AUTHORIZE THIS, IT IS FRAUD, THEY ARE STEALING FROM ME. I GOTZ BILLS TO PAY."
nmggejqethxlmflqin #_startups13min
or something.
rumwinin #_startups12min
That's why I was wondering if Stripe's message was something to base my defense on
vwjdsein #_startups12min
since it's not a renewal but a first payment it couldnt be canceled, just authorized
fgejiyanmgrnjdjkin #_startups11min
When people come up with a reason, they have a couple options Fraud, didn't receive, requested cancellation etc..
tkqqzzjbzvyrqfauin #_startups9min
The Fraud ones are usually the easiest to win because people don't realize that fraud is usually reserved for someone else using their card. So if you have the same email they sent the dispute with, they will almost always lose.
lsftzlin #_startups9min
i see
qgvufvdivkhrvumxin #_startups9min
(people can be dumb)
fiaxmkyzznjkrin #_relationships8min
My family has a word for people like that... "talkatchu"

I honestly really dislike one sided conversations, unless I'm prepared in advance that the person will be venting
olxadrin #_covid197min
usqigbuzjpzvknxpk yeah! The point I wanted to make is that americans should already be freaking out now because it has already killed more than the flu per month. But I get your point that many people cannot divide per 12 (you just told me that people can be dumb ;D)
qkfyfxin #_startups6min
yeah, hmm I'm gonna give it a try and learn if I have any chances for future disputes. So that I learn if it's worth just refunding even when the users are at fault breaking the refund policy.
yzjeccklemennpcsin #_startups6min
because the mediator will be like, you are claiming fraud but the company has your email address. Kind of strange that someone stole your credit card and used your email address to sign up.
hrlgplin #_flying4min
can we just have a moment to appreciate the cool glasses that went unseen at first sight?
nlbhuoin #_startups2min
yep makes sense
twyctoin #_startups2min
we live in a complex world
jpcthcin #_startups2min
i'll change the button text to Are you fucking sure you want to pay?
rxtdmiin #_startups53s
Money that could be used to buy toilet paper in these difficult times will be extracted forever from your account, do you want to proceed?
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