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# _freelance40min# bulgaria47min# _gear48min# _money3h# bali3h# thailand3h# _language-learning4h# ___general5h# croatia5h# __roll-call5h# japan5h# united-states5h# serbia6h# _coders7h# mexico7h# _politics9h# cambodia10h# argentina11h# europe14h# _covid1916h# _bargain-travel16h# _fitness17h# _crypto18h# _flying19h# _pets20h# italy22h# _startups23h# _food1d# taiwan1d# _taxes-us2d# peru2d# _jobs-talk2d# spain2d# chiang-mai2d# _show-and-tell2d# lisbon2d# portugal2d# medellin3d# _relationships3d# paris3d# _design3d# berlin3d# vietnam3d# montreal4d# romania4d# south-korea4d# budapest4d# _ruby5d# germany5d# canada5d# chile6d# philippines6d# _housing6d# _photography6d# hong-kong7d# _music7d# ukraine8d# _books8d# india9d# _insurance9d# _productivity10d# ecuador11d# malaysia11d# australia11d# united-kingdom13d# _outdoors13d# slovenia14d# netherlands15d# singapore16d# prague17d# georgia17d# _marketing18d# denmark20d# new-zealand20d# egypt22d# costa-rica22d# _javascript22d# austin23d# amsterdam23d# brazil24d# china27d# miami28d# belgium29d# london29d# _legal29d# _overland-travel1mo# new-york-city1mo# colombia1mo# russia1mo# switzerland1mo# south-africa1mo# greece1mo# sweden2mo# toronto2mo# las-palmas2mo# panama2mo# venezuela2mo# _taxes-intl2mo# indonesia2mo# san-francisco2mo# turkey2mo# middle-east2mo# myanmar2mo# kuala-lumpur3mo# poland3mo# laos3mo# tel-aviv3mo# uruguay3mo# estonia3mo
tybtwriyjxin #_money9h
I'm not far off doubling my money
vhjanrksgain #_money9h
Having bought all the disasters a few weeks ago
xxbiwengkrpspin #_freelance9h
That's what I've charged for several years and at this point I feel like it's _extremely_ fair.
tqjhmaeepein #_money9h
But given that they dropped 60-80% before I bought
ggvxlaxvlzgsfin #_freelance9h
I work with some people who cost less but they need quite a bit of handholding, and I've hired people north of $200 who just got it done and wasted very little time. I think you can frequently come out ahead paying more on the hourly.
ovlbuvboyiin #_money9h
Then there's still hundreds of percent returns to go IF they ever recover to previous levels
agyzdcoyfthjhin #_freelance9h
I was planning to bump my rate significantly this year, but then 14% of americans lost their jobs so... probably gonna wait a year on that, might be hard to sell right now.
wmnbfvbqgigxkin #_freelance9h
You guys need to charge more if you think $150 is high for a developer, I feel like it's smack in the middle.
nzzin #_politics9h
fair enough. i dont like hypocrisy either
vnftospnjpin #_money9h
This is precisely what I've done with Boeing. I've sold off half as I've already made crazy returns.
slidatrzxbdin #___general9h
I need an unemployment lawyer for usa.
ainxvgluaqin #_money9h
On the flipside my gold and silver hedges are slipping in value quite a bit
aqygujwzijggymqein #_freelance8h
kpbhhfieaumdmw I think it really depends on what the work is. I would never pay $150/hour for like a wordpress dev because I can get very good ones for very cheap. I also wouldn't pay $150/hour for a front-end developer.
zoxkjocqlvbnczddin #_freelance8h
The vast vast majority of developers make between 36-57/hour.
crorsovcetiydqvtin #_freelance8h
Sometimes less depending on the area.
mzdwaulkguhin #_freelance8h
klysatcyuntvvfeea I think that backs up ivczhyfqauuhnk advice that devs need to charge more. My feeling is people in general base rates on the work they're putting into it, as opposed the value the client is getting out of it.
nqjfgglyxvfkin #_freelance8h
This only applies to US companies then. There's no way you're getting this with European clients unless you're doing some super niche, in demand work.
lwoqftjnjqpcxtzqin #_freelance8h
I would agree with that, I think if you are really good at delivery you can probably charge more. Who knows what is going to happen with all these tech company going full remote. Facebook has already announced geography linked wages. My theory is that like the rest of the economy the middle is going to get hallowed out.
hvfaletryapxqvwiin #_freelance8h
But it is like absolutely everything in life. It is a bell curve. Everyone can play basketball, not everyone can be in the NBA.
oklglkuvjaakin #_freelance8h
I'm sure even in Switzerland the average hourly rate is lower than 150.
hnwlrsttdnhgtin #_freelance8h
You don't need to be an NBA level player to deliver thousands of dollars in business value for a few hours of decent work
yvmahubbycmmkin #_freelance8h
Take your work seriously and your clients will too
wtxpwgztlsbxmsqdin #_freelance8h
I think if you are talking in terms of business value, you are an NBA level player. Most freelancers have a really hard time quantifying that.
qplwvmevemvzwoltin #_freelance8h
A lot of it might just be a lack of education or negotiating ability.
yqacckaypyjwpin #_freelance8h
Or a surplus of nerd?
gteuaeqpichyubrhin #_freelance8h
There is a big difference between "I am going to charge you X per hour to deliver product" and "I am going to charge you X per hour to deliver $$ in business value"
pairlzqtrwolcin #_freelance8h
Sure, it takes practice, and an uncomfortable level of confidence
eygihacvwrpnprslin #_freelance8h
However, I generally think freelancers undercharge in general though because they don't take in to account lack of benefits, short contracts, insurance, etc..
erwxfkraocvdmin #_freelance8h
But anyone with reasonable skills to back it up can do it
lmamluxhnhjaoacqin #_freelance8h
Sure, but there is a critical mass of people who don't and they undercharge.
yczsyirjrilvjin #_freelance8h
Yeah, the hourly sounds high until you realize what you're losing along the way to spendable
dkeekadmlyvnein #_freelance8h
It's not in fact high
bqqlzizcfqfkfin #_freelance8h
There are, but it's still difficult to find good people and nobody who's gone through it before is going to be tempted by the risk of a better deal unless cashflow gets really dire
twohoaibsilbfin #_freelance8h
You also have to _stay good at_ what you do, which means a lot of experimenting/retraining non-billable weekend projects
qktqvxcwrmzthin #_freelance8h
It really helps if you enjoy it
ytxncwczutgvzwxsin #_freelance8h
Well not all projects and tasks are equal or of all equal importance and executives are always looking to cut costs, although cutting dev costs almost always backfires.
jablszenqvopkepain #_freelance8h
Hiring bad cheap developers out of India for instance.
pkcbhmcvfbbctin #_freelance8h
Sure, I don't try to help people with things like WordPress even though I know it. I will help them find and manage someone cheaper to do that.
ivdfhmbbmcpgfbdxin #_freelance8h
(Not saying all indian developers are bad, the good ones are usually pretty close to market value)
jtgrdjdgxlqpcqaain #_freelance8h
Also I just noticed the "How much should you charge" link on the top, lol
uiasanxafaiin #_freelance8h
I would charge the same or more for WordPress, personally. Closing in on 40% of websites in the world using it. With Jam Stacks and headless options you've got entire new worlds to conquer lol WooCommerce is the largest e-commerce platform. And they're about to turn the corner again with Gutenberg, so you'll have full sight editing capabilities on every install.

Long story short, unless you're stuck in a development environment of a large corporation, but even then, I would push everyone towards WordPress. Not to mention it's open source and completely free. The amount of work you can get done for your clients, the ease with which you can add anything the client needs now or in the future, is a money and time saver for your client and for you. And I go back to the charging what the client is getting out of it as opposed to what you feel you're putting in for work. And especially with the word press loop, going down the cheaper developer route while it seems easy because WordPress can be done without much knowledge, the real value is in getting it all to work together. (Example, I just redesigned a site and we got the page speeds and y slow scores above where they were as a static site. That took a lot of brains and effort lol but also shows you the power of WordPress.)
vnwroin #bali8h
Beratan lake and bedugul is highly recommend, I was there last week
xzfulin #bali8h
Itโ€™s about an hour away from lovina, you can go and see the dolphins boats still going out
wpbofyouhokxldsmin #_freelance8h
Ya, I have an agency that has taken a PSD, sliced it, integrated wordpress and added all functionality for under 2k and they delivered it in like 3-4 days. They can do everything and they work on volume out of a low COL area. I mean if you think you can get a high rate for wordpres dev, by all means, but I personally would never hire a wordpress developer at that rate.
cdqcsesfeyxrjin #_freelance8h
There are WordPress tasks I do charge for and take care of myself, but they're more complex than the avg wp dev can handle. Very often security related (monitoring, incident response, backup/recovery), sometimes performance optimization (CDN), sometimes migrating e-commerce (setting up version control and deployment)
powanmrcvvrwzin #_freelance8h
But I don't like working with WordPress so I do my best not to do it
pjuremnjellquin #_freelance8h
Time spent doing WordPress work is time wasted, because you're developing very low value skills that won't help you long-term in your career
trcvfzewylgfwhooin #_freelance8h
This is a basic economic issue, there are just a lot of wordpress devs and a lot of them are very good. There is just too much supply IMO.
ypfgpcwfywuflin #_freelance8h
I'll still recommend companies use it in many cases for the reasons rgrxudchxhmh described. But I won't recommend hiring me to do it.
jnteuebwxviin #mexico8h
I'm losing my tan! ;_;
fprgsylejxzudiuyin #_freelance8h
I think the 80/20 rule applies to development as well, you need to find the 20% of work that has 80% of the money not the 80% of work that has 20% of the money.
buppadevppgoflfjin #_freelance8h
This was when I was right out of college with like 1 year of unrelated experience lol
dllclursedcfnin #_freelance7h
Yep
evcbddhhxbnqgin #_freelance7h
I haven't been quoted under $150 by anyone _else_ for work in several years either, so I think this channel may have a rather distorted view of the market.
uemlgcngitkin #mexico7h
so how is everyone passing the time here in quarantine anyway
kyflharctwoqin #_coders7h
fwnnqzwyzlmnb so i'm trying to layout the pipeline for this in my head. you've got your repository of code, you've got a ci/cd pipeline like gitlab or awsCodePipeline responding to commit hooks that builds your code and runs your tests, then you've got kubernetes orchestrating pods with docker containers that run node.js lambda functions from your code. how are you managing the lifetime of the lambda portion? i.e. from what i've seen of kubernetes you can tell it how many nodes you want and it'll spin new ones up if any go down etc, but isn't the whole idea of serverless that you don't have a container live waiting for requests? i understand you can shutdown the pod after the function has run somehow, but then wouldn't kubernetes just spin up another one which kind of defeats the purpose of being serverless?
puiapbrpbxereacoin #_freelance7h
Too many people dabble with freelance and approach it by pricing themselves at about the same rate as theyโ€™d usually get at a full time job, not realizing the companies are saving a ton on not paying benefits and other things, and not needing to make a permanent commitment is worthwhile to them. Your freelance rate should generally be about double what you can get for full time work, in my experience.
smaorhjjfeggsjmgin #_freelance7h
Iโ€™ve generally got anywhere from $100/hr USD to $200/hr. I negotiated $350/hr once for a one month deal.
geeeaqghpqkonin #_freelance7h
Yeah, $300 is where I feel I should be, with a slightly different approach to my work and packaging of AoE
lluwxsdxtvjntin #_freelance7h
I'm not going to change anything up just yet, but when the economic effects of covid-19 start to shake out I'll be rearranging my business a bit to do that.
bqnumkndbrganin #_freelance6h
As it is I'm turning away the $150/hr deals I don't want and have more than enough of them, so that's what's indicative of the time for change, or at least that seems to make sense in my head.
onopycenazjijin #_freelance6h
Or hire, but the clients I have now don't seem to want that any more than I want to manage an agency
uscuhrvohyhrjin #_freelance6h
Which is to say, not
sohdiblyofewein #_freelance6h
Anyway, this is boring, it's Saturday, goodbye!
jiyin #serbia6h
everythings pretty much open in belgrade now
pdpin #bulgaria6h
did you have some trouble?
dozin #serbia6h
im having difficulty getting a blabla car or bus to sofia โ€” anyone knows any alternatives?
oecosclqkbohin #bali6h
went to beratan today, but it was very foggy :sweat_smile:, i picked the wrong day to visit
rumeofyecin #_money6h
I'm fairly certain Boeing can potentially return to previous levels over the next few years at worst, but I'm not so sure about airlines
jfemncezgin #_money6h
I've heard Southwest has the most cash to burn
swjgudwlvin #__roll-call5h
rkxcanicjw just arrived in Louisville, KY, #united-states
isgttqwpkin #united-states5h
qldhcrfgmt just arrived in Louisville, KY, #united-states
hjwdjqlocccltin #__roll-call5h
gefayxvkpboslf just arrived in Tyler, TX, #united-states
msttgyqin #__roll-call5h
jortdrsr just arrived in Fukuoka, #japan
jdqlpekin #japan5h
wfkuugwg just arrived in Fukuoka, #japan
lzxwruszvnoqdguin #__roll-call5h
kmiqjvzxqjdtqzah just arrived in Waldport, #united-states
wundocpqin #croatia5h
ruxhxbkws just arrived in Zagreb, #croatia
gtadpyqeoin #___general5h
yeah I realize that, but it was pretty blatant. they left out a significant amount of incriminating information. the wife (who the "main character" is purported to have killed) had 30-odd defensive wounds and bruises that are not addressed in the doc, she had a broken thyroid cartilage, she was found facing up but had a footprint matching the husband's shoe on the BACK of the pants, they (mostly the husband and his sons from his previous marriage) were seriously indebted, he was the beneficiary of her life insurance in case of accidental death etc. etc. They didn't quickly brush over these things, they didn't mention them AT ALL, which is shady as hell imho
ykkohnnwwuin #_language-learning4h
Has anyone here learned how to speak Russian?
nibiwnnin #thailand4h
Is there any official info about Thailand re-opening for international flights on July 1st? Or is it still just a speculation?
szlrssngxistain #thailand4h
I've heard it often enough it's gotta be true
lhifoqlczqqqgin #thailand4h
That is how things work here right?
dwysznzizfqjin #thailand4h
Question about international flights ... there are (and I believe have been) international carriers offering outbound service. Assuming my understanding is correct, does this mean theyโ€™re flying empty planes here? Or whatโ€™s going on?
eoteggwxin #_language-learning4h
Yeah, by being born there ๐Ÿ˜€
fqdiiuvin #bali3h
the weather always sucks there, like clockwork
hwkkvuhjjztin #thailand3h
Yes. I think they fill up the inbound flights with diplomats and cargo. And outbound with civil passengers.
akmnhocbfcduin #thailand3h
Interesting ...
gugzouuutzadin #thailand3h
I was partly worried that these fights I was seeing (and therefore the one I booked) were not actually taking place
hstlbin #bali3h
cczroqsv As a middle eastern that was the perfect weather to me ๐Ÿ˜„
uvvgjqjoqfoin #_freelance3h
Yes being a WordPress developer I work on 30 usd per hour.
xvancwzqpkuin #_freelance3h
I am available for WordPress project if anyone need in 30$/Hr
beyvblatyin #_money3h
I sold 50% of my Boeing holdings at a 37% profit. Gonna put it into btc or eth.
eqasnbfxphtfyiin #_gear2h
Quality control at mass scale probably.
vqdwlyin #_gear50min
Anybody here have the Atlas Athlete pack and can let me know if it protects your laptop decently ๐Ÿค” (surprisingly hard to come by this info)
jsgcijin #_gear49min
My current hybrid camera backpack recently bent my MacBook ๐Ÿคฌ Time for it to go
vctsmain #_gear49min
And my photographer friend recommended this one
exmapsin #_gear48min
(current backpack is InCase DSLR Pro Pack, in case anybodyโ€™s considering that one :grimacing:)
nxpyvwbjsmsqin #bulgaria48min
The border is still closed to non-EU passports, so Iโ€™m still happily in Vietnam
tjuglxfgain #_freelance40min
Damn, now I feel like I should be charging much more ๐Ÿ˜ฑ
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