Clear search
Remote Jobs  Nomad Insurance Chat Meetups Visas & Residency New Climate Finder Forum FAQ Dating New Members Hire Remotely Open menu
🌍 Join Nomad List👋  Log in
Nomad List  Homepage⚙️  Settings🌗  Dark mode ❤️  Your favorites🚑  Nomad insurance
💬  Chat❤️  Dating🍸  Meetups🎫  Members map🏜  Explore💁  About
🔮  Random place🔮  Random good place
📸  Vote on photos💸  FIRE calculator🌤  Climate finder💥  Fastest growing🔌  Fastest internet
🛰  Remote jobs✈️  Airlines🗺  Neighborhoods🏝  Coworkations📍  Remote work visas🔓  Open startup
Covid19 Chat

All Channels
# united-kingdom8min# _bargain-travel8min# argentina13min# _jobs-talk38min# _gear53min# _covid1958min# spain2h# europe2h# canada2h# united-states3h# ___introductions3h# georgia4h# _bug-reports4h# czechia4h# latin-america4h# mexico5h# _music5h# bulgaria5h# _show-and-tell5h# turkey5h# africa5h# _housing6h# _food6h# _outdoors6h# poland7h# _flying7h# asia8h# bali8h# netherlands8h# portugal9h# france9h# ukraine10h# dubai13h# croatia14h# estonia14h# _fitness14h# germany15h# italy15h# hungary15h# greece15h# serbia15h# thailand16h# _relationships17h# _marketing19h# sweden1d# austria1d# ecuador1d# _productivity2d# brazil2d# slovenia2d# colombia2d# australia2d# _money2d# _coders2d# romania2d# _parents2d# _legal2d# vietnam2d# denmark3d# peru3d# costa-rica3d# _overland-travel3d# _taxes-us3d# chile3d# _lgbtq3d# panama4d# canary-islands4d# hong-kong4d# cyprus5d# india5d# indonesia5d# _crypto5d# lithuania5d# _freelance5d# norway6d# mauritius6d# _stonks6d# guatemala7d# south-korea7d# _startups7d# _insurance7d# _photography8d# south-africa9d# _pets10d# israel10d# miami10d# russia11d# china12d# north-macedonia14d# morocco14d# cuba14d# bolivia17d# malaysia17d# finland17d# sri-lanka20d# japan20d# malta22d# __announcements26d# _for_rent26d# _design28d# switzerland28d# singapore28d# new-zealand29d# _books29d# kuwait30d# montenegro1mo# saudi-arabia1mo# taiwan1mo# belgium1mo# iceland1mo# nicaragua1mo# ___general1mo# cambodia2mo# egypt2mo# philippines2mo# austin2mo# middle-east2mo# chiang-mai2mo# puerto-rico2mo# dominican-republic2mo# london3mo
These findings suggest that natural immunity and vaccine-generated immunity to SARS-CoV-2 will differ in how they recognize new viral variants. What’s more, antibodies acquired with the help of a vaccine may be more likely to target new SARS-CoV-2 variants potently, even when the variants carry new mutations in the RBD.
It’s not entirely clear why these differences in vaccine- and infection-elicited antibody responses exist. In both cases, RBD-directed antibodies are acquired from the immune system’s recognition and response to viral spike proteins. The Seattle team suggests these differences may arise because the vaccine presents the viral protein in slightly different conformations.
Also, it’s possible that mRNA delivery may change the way antigens are presented to the immune system, leading to differences in the antibodies that get produced. A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously.
I actually used the most conservative number. The Israeli ministry of health have officially stated that incidence of myocarditis following Pfizer immunotherapy is between 1:3,000 and 1:6,000 in men aged 16-24. This is up to 25x the background rate. This thread is indeed about children. You have cited data for adults and then immediately proceeded to tell me that I am ‘Cherry picking’ data. We do however agree that enrolling children into a lifetime of experimental immunotherapy is unnecessary.
I read that NIH blog post back when it was released. It’s loaded with weasel words. Read it again very carefully and you will find them. Once again, it is not disputed that naturally conferred immunity is superior to vaccine conferred immunity. Content you find to the contrary will be laced with ambiguity. At this point the NIH are marking their own homework on everything from the proximal origin of the virus through to vaccine safety. Fauci will be in an orange jumpsuit before long.
The piece you posted doesn’t contradict my point about paratopes.
There is certainly space to debate the seriousness of myocarditis when induced by an exogenous substrate without any understanding of the mechanism of induction or the long term consequences... but I hope that we can agree that it’s something that we should avoid giving to children if at all possible, given the fact that they are virtually untouched by the actual pathogen.
Trudeau is the golden boy of globalism, so quelle surprise that he’s signed-up Canadians for a lifetime of annual immunotherapy treatment from a big pharma behemoth, and has already paid in advance with our money.
Hi all, a quick question on non-EU Covid vaccination while in the EU and UK I got my Covid shots in Afghanistan (by WHO, which apparently is not helpful at all, lol) and they only took note of it in a Yellow Vaccine booklet (with dates and stamp). I am wondering if anyone has had any experience in the EU with non-EU certificates (big zone I know, but since the digital Covid certificates are rolled out, my take is it's a bit harmonised on that front - maybe I'm naive to think that) nonetheless, I am interested to know if anyone travelled between countries within EU with a non-EU certificate and how their experience was 🙏
Estonia lets in people vaccinated with Sputnik in Russia, crossed the border twice now. But I do have a QR code which they checked both times
cycxayluml yeah that QR code apparently does open gates whereas my beautifully hand-calligraphed vaccine booklet looks like something out of a museum collection.
Isn't it like 3-5 years to build factories? Well past next election (likely in the next 60-90 days), so not a relevant talking point.
That’s good.

Ah - to “modernize and expand” the company’s facilities.

So I suspect it’s not full new lines.


But big step in the right direction.
EU doesn't have borders so it's barely checked. Only place they may check is at airports but even then it's not legally required to travel. Only thing it might avoid you is going into quarantine. Then again quarantine in EU means stay at home and nobody checks you.
EU's rules are like UN rules but even less enforced 😂
Again EU has NO internal borders
I have a similar booklet from Ukraine 😅 from what I've read it's okay to travel but different EU states have different requirements. Most of them state that it's okay if you don't have yet a QR code
Yeah was worried about the airport checks as Brexit means borders for us in the EU 🙄
Haha I will be going to some airport checks so will report back on how acceptable it might be
Does anyone know where we can get the Jansen or johnson and johnson vaccine as a tourist in Europe one Brit one Australian - not having a vaccine is stifling our travel rolling_on_the_floor_laughingrolling_on_the_floor_laughing
uddtunnwmzapafi I cited data for the age range (18-24) that you used for Israel’s mycarditis incidence rate.
not sure how that implies i am, too, cherry-picking?
Feel free to send me some actual data/studies on natural vs vaccine-conferred immunity specific to covid19.
Which you have yet to do
I have used the US CDC vaccination card to get in and travel in Europe (internal flights etc). Had 0 issues. But it was an US document, I get it that it might feel different.
Berlin
fvwbjue how do you mean Brexit means borders for us in the EU? like flying to from UK?
I mean internal travel within EU (not UK, since it's not part of EU anymore), there's no borders nor any checks when you drive at least, they also legally can't stop you from traveling/boarding if you don't have a vaccine. The EU law states that free travel is holy
I'm not an anti vaxxer btw just telling the rules
EU media is making it look like you def need this vax QR code to travel which isn't true at all. Same with their red/orange colored travel advice etc. Everyone follows it which is good but you could pretty much travel anywhere in EU since the start of COVID and there was no checks on quarantining at all. All very lax. Not necessarily good but that's the way it is.
But is it really stifling travel? You can travel in the EU without the vaccine.
Yeah, I mixed it up with the fact that when entering EU with a British passport (not from UK though) had to go to the Other Passports and get it stamped. So in my mind it was that there might be checks for traveling without the EU passport, but you're right. Maybe it would be only the airlines checking.
I'll see tmrw when flying from Athens to Barcelona.
I just tried to go across a land border from Sweden to Norway a couple weeks ago, and it was blocked and I was unable to enter
Denmark also says to expect refusal of entry by land from Sweden, so I’m not going to try that
If it’s different in the mainland that’s great… I am def allowed to enter Austria given vaccination, and it would let me visit Innsbruck more easily if I could return from Munich instead of going all the way back to Vienna
No as far as I am aware you can’t enter Germany or France without being vaccinated
chvzypmvvedqm do you know something I don’t about entering without vaccine ?
You can enter Germany without vaccine for sure, if you are coming from another EU member state. I just did it last week. www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/EinreiseUndAufenthalt#:~:text=Due%20to%20the%20COVID%2D19,and%20comply%20with%20quarantine%20regulations.
France I’d have to check but I thought it’s also the same.
I'm a little confused as to why you wouldn't want one just to avoid getting really sick?
vvspixgisolfv thank you Angela super helpful
The Israeli study group is 16-24
No checks between Belfast and Dublin, ever. And I’m pretty sure your airside landing zone would be Domestic/Schengen, when landing at EU ports.
“Among recipients of BNT162b2, severe solicited adverse reactions/events in 12-15-year-olds occurred less frequently than in 16-25-year-olds.”
The distinction between 16 and 18-24 seems somewhat arbitrary (especially considering the above which, in fact, is contrary to your whole argument). I wasn’t cherry-picking, just quoting a source that uses the closest age range I could find at the time.
So an update on this before traveling to Spain (from Greece), I filled out the form using the government app. It asked me if I am vaccinated, the type (luckily Covisheild AZ was in the list) and the date of 2nd dose. That's it. Didn't ask to even scan or take a photo of the vaccine card. It said "approved" and gave me the QR code. When entering Spain, someone was scanning the code. No one even asked to see the actual vaccine card 🙄
FYI
Does anyone know if we cross borders from Montenegro to Serbia by bus , if a negative covid test is required?.
This is what I expected from EU haha
Their privacy laws etc too strict to rly do anything
It’s almost as if the EU Health Passport isn’t actually about trying to “stop the virus”
I haven’t sent you studies because there aren’t any. This really is very basic stuff that most people learn at school. I have also told you why (non-homogeneous epitopes). If you don’t know what this means, Wikipedia is always a good start point.
ukdvbgs Thats really good to know! Thanks! Just a heads up, I have heard Paris is completely different atm. My mom is there now, and she said her vaccine card is getting worn out and they show it all the time.
Ah - don’t worry... a solution to that problem is being worked on by big tech, and some American health companies owned by Blackrock... news.trust.org/item/20210114121756-i3lpf/|https://news.trust.org/item/20210114121756-i3lpf/
Oh yeah, I scanned my into my phone, and I am laminating mine. Would be nice if they would come out with that already though
Yeah! It’s been announced that the UK health app will soon provide rewards when you do the right things, like buy fruit and vegetables. Just like a credit system. Can’t wait!
Primary key me baby! 🔐
It’s clear the science is as of yet not fully clear in terms of immunity (specifically for covid). Anyway, I’m done with this topic.
Disagree. It’s abundantly clear that natural immunity is superior to vaccine conferred immunity. This is not even disputed amongst serious scientists. The data that I referred you to - in the case of wuhan corona - is categorically indisputable.
Wow that's some real dystopian shit right there.
My god. We really are living in Orwell's 1984. What a joke.
The iPhone version is Apple Watch compatible; nice tight permanent stainless steel strap; pegasus; user data replicated by aws to beijing; Very nice! 👍
They’re not even taking my hand written American vax card in Lyon, they are only scanning bar codes and all tourists had to take Covid tests to get into museums which is so wack.
Is anyone in Greece or Italy?

I’m planning to go to either Greece or Italy and I heard they are requiring people to get a Green Certificate/ Covid passport. I’m in France (Lyon, a major city) rn and they are doing the same thing here. I’ve been vaccinated in the US and basically have a hand written CDC card lol and in France, they have been refusing me to enter some places because I don’t have their Covid passport QR code. I had to be fully vaxxed to enter the country but now they don’t recognize my vax card and I can’t do anything basically and had to pay for PCR tests to go to places (wack af). So is it the same in Greece & Italy? I can’t get this QR code/covid passport app bc I’m not a resident of the EU and I can’t even access to download it from my phone (since it’s not set to the EU app market).

They want to revive tourism but don’t let vaccinated tourists do anything... makes sense.

Anyways does anyone have any insight on this? Please let me know how it is in Greece & Italy right now!

I need to leave France ASAP!
I also have to stay in the EU (in the the process of getting residency but it will take some time)
Hi! I was in Greece on holidays in early June and I was vaccinated in the US too. The CDC card was accepted everywhere. here and there I had to explain, but it was all good.
Travelled internally (plane/ferry) and had 0 issues. Don't know what's the situation now, but last month I had no problems whatsoever.
In Budapest case rates are low and no one asks to see your vaccine passport
but you’d have to fly in to Vienna and then cross into Hungary by land because the airports are still effectively closed to Americans
_Article 8_
COVID-19 certificates and other documentation issued by a third country
1.   Where a vaccination certificate has been issued in a third country for a COVID-19 vaccine that corresponds to one of the COVID-19 vaccines referred to Article 5(5) and the authorities of a Member State have been provided with all the necessary information, including reliable proof of vaccination, those authorities may, upon request, issue a vaccination certificate as referred to in point (a) of Article 3(1) to the person concerned. A Member State shall not be required to issue a vaccination certificate for a COVID-19 vaccine that is not authorised for use on its territory.
Took rapid 48 hr test in Thailand then flew to Athens no issue back on July 6th. Had to do rapid from Athens to islands and islands to Crete. Between island self test kit is all you need for 5 euro and Ferries don't even check. We leave from Santorini tomorrow to Crete.
in theory you should be able to use your CDC card to get the green pass, in practice no member state has done any work on making that possible yet
In Italy it will be required from August 6th for sitting indoors
also for large events and gyms/pools/museums
Is Budapest open for foreign tourists? I mean I’ll be coming from France so within the EU. Let me know!
Thanks for letting me know! So we can just buy a self kit to go to the islands, I heard they check on some ferries too, good to know they are lenient
Data is starting to emerge on long covid, it's scary. I talked a couple months ago how I personally knew people with long covid and now data is starting to come out to back this stuff up. Something like 1 in 20 healthy people are getting it and a not small amount of them are having what looks like possibly permanent brain damage.


An even scarier study IMO, is one that is finding a drop in intelligence of those who have contracted the virus.
(for Greece) I know they do random checks before ferry, best to check the ferry operator site for requirements — they are different for mainland->islands and between islands
Oaky thanks! So the only checks they do is when you go to a different place/island right? Museums / restaurants don’t check right
No but I've seen them check getting into clubs
Restaurants don’t check for vaccine, even if that’s the law. Masks are required when entering shops and on the ferries.
Haven’t visited museums…
I just forwarded that link to my friends and we all kinda agree we've become dumber if you look at our convos vs 2y ago
It’s well worth looking at all the (controversial?) evidence around ivermectin. Not only is there evidence it’s a preventive and a cure but also a cure for long covid and vaccine side-effects
I'd say peer reviewed paper in a journal or doesn't count
people are looking into all sorts of things for covid treatment, most of them are flukes
I won’t be going to clubs - too old for that, but bars and restaurants yes. And museums/cultural sites. As long as they are accepting foreign vaccine proofs - not my fault that the US just issues a hand written paper card for proof of vaccination
The real winner of covid was Madagascar who re-sold iced tea as a covid tonic to africa. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/unproven-herbal-remedy-against-covid-19-could-fuel-drug-resistant-malaria-scientists
The paper in favor of ivermectin has been withdrawn due to the article "misinterpreting" the raw data. IE. the authors claimed that 4% of patients in the control group died, but I'm reality none died.
Can't post links due to being inactive for a while
But this was published by the Guardian a few weeks ago under the headline "Huge study supporting ivermectin as Covid treatment withdrawn over ethical concerns".
The other peer reviewed study done on ivermectin titled "Ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials" shows no measurable benefit of ivermectin use.

So until there is proof ivermectin works, I would say it's safe to assume it doesn't work.
‘Long Covid’ is almost certainly several different syndromes. Perhaps a dozen or more. We know this because clinical presentation (symptoms, scans etc) varies widely between patients. Having a chronic illness after a viral infection isn’t really a new thing, and it certainly wasn’t a rarity. Before all of the fear porn started being delivered to our phones by bigtech’s left-right up-down swipe apps, these conditions were accurately diagnosed as Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS); Multiple sclerosis; a bunch of somatic depressive conditions... etc. There are probably some new conditions too, but ‘Long Covid’ is not an adequate diagnosis. A lot of the conditions are auto-immune related, which is why many treatment protocols deploy Rheumatoid Arthritis drugs in order to attenuate cytokine storms.
This dang bot hates me
youtube /watch?v=7jQfNzk_CFk
I think there’s definitely a signal with ivermectin, I thought the doctors behind FLCCC were pretty respected? But then people like Bret Weinstein muddy the water
×
USD ─ $
°F
✨ To see all results
Join Nomad List
286ms
Messages
Open IM list
Send