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hwtskccud15d
Yes, absolutely. A good designer is always listening and interpreting! Clients prescribe solutions because they have a vision of what they need, it’s up to us to offer a different solution that most matches their needs. However, as you say, there are moments when you must accept “defeat” but the majority of the time, if it makes a client happy, it’s worth it!
tojkevu15d
would anyone recommend CodeCademy for learning HTML & CSS?
rxumjlneau15d
psfzbxya that's a great one, for sure. Although I have been using teamtreehouse.com|teamtreehouse.com for years, so I'm partial 😉
zlumjsb15d
wynjgpcijqjdtr for the past 2.5 years I worked at regular office jobs (product companies). Before that I was freelancing and at some point I reached a state where I would reject a new client/project every week. It took some time for the word of mouth to gain its power, but later it was just crazy how well it worked 🙂 At the moment though I’d say I’m starting from scratch again
wuopcwgqkwayg15d
Reminds me of this

iyhbpccfzbzve15d
Yes absolutely design systems help, but creating them is extra overhead quite often, and that’s another thing to convince the project owner. Ideally the project owner has the same understanding that we here do. But I’ve also seen people cut corners with design system. In the end you can use all the tricks in the book, but again, if that philosophy isn’t there. C graders produce C-grade work, and if the product owner is a C-grader, in terms of quality, there’s no wrangling them around
wocyuckj12d
DS from the start more efficient in the long run
xvhqpldg12d
hard to get buy in from all stake holders to use a design system
qldvurwj12d
but if you do it is highly beneficial to the integrity of the design and scalability of your projects
ilpadduf12d
❤️ design systems
ytvnqtwh12d
..for projects that need to scale anyway. Probably dont need a full DS for small scale projects, but in this case a quick UIkit from the designers is useful. e.g. a sketch file with all components laid out with all default units defined. I think sketch does this automatically now anyway.
abuhmztfnp12d
1. design system
2. a million slack clarification messages back and forth
pick one
ynlehcmnjppjq11d
Do you sell design systems to clients or you only work with people that already get it?
gprfnemj11d
Designer could pick an existing design system and do their initial design according to that system and give the system and the design to the client/developers..
upenrktw11d
A good design system should be easy for developers to implement I hope
sednqqbn11d
There’s some open source design systems on github etc from some established companies
mvrncwdxtnojc11d
Yeah my go-to is www.figma.com/file/8dbmFxPJdkh6FLxwSyCRiC/Material-Design-Theme-Kit/duplicate?node-id=0%3A1 if the client doesn’t have a design system, and I need a quick foundation, done in 1h.
rdoyqqxyjohfr9d
Should I market myself as `multidisciplinary designer` or `full stack designer` ? Or something else.
sgojdlparazbq9d
I wanna highlight the fact that I have a very broad skillset, but also wanna avoid sounding like a wanker, if possible.
zigqdnfqjzepq9d
Although if I sound a bit like a wanker but very clearly and quickly communicate my strengths, that’s okay with me 🙂
vfvezsmtrvbhk9d
Whatever is most effective
xiqigizzsetis9d
and don’t wanna use terminology like “M-shaped designer” which doesn’t mean anything to 99% of people
skletevdpanb9d
👋 hi everyone, ui/ux designer planning to live the nomad life in April/May and new to nomadlist
mfnjabrkmi8d
oxuuhipsxaowxd I've used "Full-stack designer," but with the same concerns you voiced as well. It seems weird to borrow terminology from developers, but I think so many of us designers working in tech need a familiar shorthand for describing what we do
oudlpmxlto8d
"full stack" might mean nothing to a company looking for marketing help, but would immediately resonate with a tech startup
oalhjkacbc8d
I've also heard "end-to-end" designer, which I think has a much higher chance of being understood by a broader set of people
ifpgemxrsf8d
as in, "end-to-end" definitely has tech industry overtones, but it's also layman friendly, so that same company looking for a logo wouldn't balk at asking "yes but can you animate it too?"
ptvbccxcdownz8d
As a developer full-stack designer seems weird and misleading, but I think I get what you're going for, maybe keep thinking about the word to use because that one would raise some eyebrows
petjgpsjlgkyn8d
"Product designer"?
fbeda8d
I'd go with Secretary of User Defense if I had my choice 🙃
jzmcbxbf8d
Product designer 👌
hceryjnsmnohw8d
Product designer always makes me feel like I’m a try-hard industrial designer. Digital product designer?
kdkwzeuoeqywv8d
Even with “Digital product designer” I get “huh?” 🤔 95% of times. Then I go “I design websites and apps” and then it clicks and they go “aaaahhh cool”
curgoo8d
How about UX & UI designer?
axtupygw7d
“Full stack designer” sounds more like the guy who is designing print, digital, whatever comes to your mind…
brvwogoh7d
Product designer among the software companies is well understood
dzyegogk7d
But maybe you’re not talking to software companies
fdmlasfy7d
I guess you can say “app product designer”
fsmfilyh7d
Web Product Designer sounds okay too
kbcmlyfqscrlt7d
Agree Product Designer is the way to go among tech folks, but yes, I also target non-tech folks. Thanks for your ideas everyone prayskin-tone-3
tffhtxlde7d
I alternate between Product Designer and UX/UI Designer

Product Designer definitely works best for tech companies.

If I’m talking to non-tech folk, I just say “I design apps and websites” as they get it straight away
yoeupggoxonpk7d
UX/UI makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. 90% of people who use UX/UI don’t know the difference between the two, so they quickly and awkwardly mention both in order to disguise that fact
gwncpjizmbraq7d
of people that are not designers
ptfwfopbgglys7d
the term UX was invented to distinguish designers “who make it pretty” from those who are holistic designers. And now that term itself has been swallowed up into the umbrella term UX/UI, and 90% of UX/UI jobs are now “make it pretty” jobs with a fancy title
scufhpjj7d
designer who can code
omnguekp7d
Also depends on the roles / project your targeting. Do they need a specialist or a multi disciplinary product/designer/dev
euxmnkyz7d
UX is sort of a weird beast, it's not really design in the typical web/graphics design sense.. much more data driven.. UX economics might be more apropos? hah
kcflwqlo7d
UX is user centric design ie user research, then execution on that feedback through the various processes. Another name for it is 'design thinking'
qgxzko7d
Yeah some people call it service design. Lots of wireframes, research, user testing. Also involve non-digital touch points for your service. I’m ok at it.

I suck hard at UI design on the other hand (why can’t we just keep it minimal like in the wireframes? Oh shit nvm that looks so much better)
nkuxcxalmcomh6d
UX is definitely it's own discipline... It can be difficult to work with a designer who doesn't have UX/UI experience, or can't frame the system and mechanics for the user experience in their mind
gjvmoyawxnya6d
Just found the most horrible and stupid hiring process for designers ever.
yukljjrq6d
Time to come out with an article “How product designers find companies to work with” that has Monzo not making the cut 😂
zcasazdo6d
I think part of the appeal of a long drawn out process is that time invested = company loyalty = best candidate for the role.
tzjjavkrf5d
I don’t think it’s particularly horrible or stupid. I do think the ordering is very off, too. Overall though, the thinking behind all of the tasks/steps seems sound to me. The only horrible or stupid part of it is that they aren’t compensating for the designers time, it’s very time consuming and should be paid work.

Hiring designers is notoriously hard, so it makes sense to take time in the process.

What do you find horrible and stupid about it?
ojerpgklrkast5d
The fact that they are not paying for people’s time is the horrible and stupid part.
ijtwknqhsedkz5d
Companies can feel free to take me through whatever process they want, so long as they pay me my standard hourly rate.
ikxbpufktarwb5d
But us designers are a bunch of millennial pussies who don’t know how to unionise, and therefore we get treated however the companies wanna treat us.
adzldybuhtksd5d
And that is really sad to see. These interview processes are getting more and more drawn out. It used to be that getting a test project was considered intense. Now it’s a given that you’ll A) get a test project and B) not be paid for it
nahozbxfnfkz5d
A design challenge with the brief of "Design an app for this oven without physical buttons" shows exactly what kind of work you will be doing there. I have worked on similar projects like that one, and I can tell you that (1) an oven without physical buttons will not exist due to safety concerns and (2) that the most important work on that app will be around preventing any kind of potential problems, as the outcome would not be some data loss, but could destroy houses and kill people.
kgwpstyzixtw5d
Whatever they are getting out of these exercises has nothing to do with how designers would perform in a real world scenario, working with a team and how to deal with constraints is 98% of Design work, and nothing of that is getting tested in this stupid exercise.
tutjmklvetdc5d
The only people who will be completing these challenges are designers who are focused on UI, have enough free time, and do not get snatched up by other companies who actually know how to hire designers, which means they basically eliminate the top talent just because of their process, no wonder they have a hard time finding good designers.
lkpiolkqiyzm5d
Hiring good designers is easy, if you have good people who can evaluate their work. Let them walk you through their own projects, what decisions they made, how they would change these, and get them to talk to the rest of your team to understand how they communicate with people from different backgrounds.
gryjhcczrtsb5d
We have hired 30 designers over the last 12 months, and our process is 1 interview with another designer, 1 interview with a design manager, 1 interview with a product manager, and 1 interview with the design director. Just walking with them through their portfolio and their own experiences and learnings, no take home challenges or whiteboard exercises.
hzdfpmyvvbjvw5d
That’s a step in the right direction, but even 4x 1h interviews is too much unpaid work for my liking. All those people in that interview are getting paid for their time, except for the applicant who is going to waste a lot of time if it’s a no-go in the end. My ideal process:

• Send in application with link to portfolio, if successful:
• Survey — this filters out 95% of applicants and takes about 30 minutes to complete for the applicant
• 30-min face-to-face discussion with person at company
• 1h meet-the-team discussion
So, this way the applicant has invested 2h and at that point, and the company has more than enough info on whether to go further. Then, hire person for:

• 1 day’s work and if positive
• 1 week of work (if possible), and if positive for 1 month, or offer full-time with probation period
xtjwufoeofttt5d
All the pre-hire discussions in the world aren’t gonna tell you what it’s like to work with that person. I’m all for paid trial periods. It’s fair to both company and worker
jidwgpkjqdkhk5d
Last interview process I had like 8 companies gave me take-homes with time limit in one week. I did like 2 of them then took a contract, I prefer the format but nobody has time for all that, and now I'm worried the other companies won't let me go through it again in the future and some of them were interesting.
zenaqomeunirg5d
I did a similar prolonged process to join Toptal, but at least now that I’m in, it’s a 1h chat with a potential client and then they have to make a decision.
jhqqqipo5d
usually they prefer interviewees reapply. e.g many google employees get in on their 3rd 4th attempt
vxtjwoftmucyr5d
True. I should have emailed them all back but I got busy with the new job. I guess most hiring managers would understand.
ynyxppgofxrq5d
We would love to do more paid trial periods, but as some of our positions are in extremely technical and complex areas (e.g. software security or kubernetes), that would only favor the ones who have domain knowledge. For others it can take 2-3 months to get up to speed and understand users, their problems and potential solutions, which is totally fine and expected.
ydspzgjjxr4d
payoqxdzaikczg how was your process in applying to Toptal? I was thinking about sending in my stuff, but I haven’t made the leap yet
fkrcvlt4d
Seems like all those whiteboard challenges is just a recent trend.
I remember back in 2017 I had one of the best hiring experiences ever. The company liked my portfolio and offered me to work on a real task from their backlog. They promised to pay for it no matter what. I agreed, got in touch with all the responsible people from the team to discuss all the questions and important details, was updating them on my progress and in a few days successfully delivered the designs. They liked the process and the final result, paid the money I asked for, handed the designs over to developers on the same day and hired me right away. I saw the designs live on production in a few weeks. One of the best teams I’ve worked with :)
domefblrbvxws4d
ypztyddq that’s exactly how it should be. Even better than my suggestion above. If you like someone’s work, then bloody well hire them for a few days, and go from there instead of making them jump through hoops
loatwxytkpcfn4d
I had to invest some 40h into it. I aced the process as a result. It’s quite a drawn out process but I didn’t find anything too unusual. Toptal is a numbers game, and as talent you’re very much just a number in the system, and that’s how you feel. Having said that, I haven’t had any bad experiences so far.
wlgkqdftk4d
Very interesting. I’m looking forward to giving it a go. When you say you invested 40h into it, what do you mean? Did you rework your portfolio or something?
kknzgzmmjgqcl4d
Test project that’s supposed to take some 12h but took me 20h because I wanted to ace it, which I did.

4h of interviews.

10h setting up profile with work samples created in the format they want (good format)

And some time in between on miscellaneous things
trldayakh4d
Interesting. I’m currently reworking my entire portfolio after 4 years, so I’ll be sure to sign up once I have.

How’s the process of getting work from it?
uxlrdpcmtksma4d
Different people have varying results, and not necessarily dependant on their skill level, but on marketing and applying well. I’ve got some work from it and may have some more soon.

Overall I’m glad to be on the platform. Certainly better than Upwork in my experience
opscpqmijk3d
Nice, thanks for the info!
ucwfphhxwm3d
istnamgeqltsli did you revamp your portfolio ahead of time to get to the test project portion?
xevtejuowghkr3d
the toptal portfolio? that happens after the test project
wgxrfknwpn3d
no i mean before, when you’re first getting in touch with them
rudsfzgtdv3d
I guess what I’m asking is…as my portfolio is “in transition,” should I wait until that whole process is settled before applying to Toptal?
iapzpdovd3d
Anyone know any good place where i can get custom stickers from ? I need it for a marketing thingy (might fit better in another channel ?)
uaomhcbqkobyk3d
First name pops into my head Sticker Mule. I guess they're the best at advertising to me, haven't ordered any
ovlqxkth3d
Sticker Mule also uses higher quality 3M adhesive paper 👍
qqsqmsaee3d
That’s what I’m doing glgrqwsanzv
tmacvlrbb3d
Thanks
lbyiernfu3d
I’ve used Sticker Mule before & was very pleased
nyytrcjvwe2d
stickit.se/ as mentioend elsewhere. Stickermule is the obvious choice for the US.
fcxrdpmvho2d
Oof. You can’t mute users on Slack, you can’t mute users in WhatsApp. What is the compelling UX argument for it? I would appreciate the education.
dsutgvhbn1d
avjnpnkdpzn argument for muting or against it?
wrurmtaezp22h
Against.
wtdiveafz20h
I really want Slack to have muting but I do understand why they don’t.

1. In a work scenario, which is Slack’s main customer base, they probably expect people are mature enough to communicate with everyone
2. Muting someone means that threads of conversation become disjointed
3. You can mute entire channels which means you can essentially cut out entire topics, as opposed to individual people
fgfkxgrsj20h
As Slack channels & WhatsApp groups are made with people who all share the same goal or purpose, muting a singular person seems contrary to that
tnmtnnyw9h
Hey ! Who’s using iPad Pro for UI / UX and drawing ? What’s your thought on it ?
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