Jobs Talk Chat

zxqcxnqwgwuuw2d

Good to know it does exist

ioybcwhzaonc2d

At least the taxes would be very low there

wkejnw2d

Also comparing wages between countries might be a bit misleading depending on the number of paid vacation days and other benefits. In US you are lucky with 10 days a year, in Germany 20 is minimum and 25 or 30 pretty standard.

dgrblkkylbpqm2d

Yeah I know I used the word salary but I'd probably have to stick with consulting realistically for all of the above reasons

edxedegoxsryu2d

(which is what I'm actually doing now)

suvgzbkkkgbmo2d

But if working with Americans stops working out, I'd be looking for my next best option whatever that is

meuxmqenflnvqlwk2d

I am not really sure raw numbers matter as much as income-expenses. If you can make 5k/month and put a away 3k/month in savings, you are doing better than devs in SF at 9-10k/month who may be putting away nothing.

ftqgyoihthtpi2d

They seem like they might not be doing so hot over there this month

vruvopxmmxfgo2d

Yeah I mean I'd have to sell property and stuff for that kind of adjustment to actually work for me

nbldxbacmiqfm2d

More realistically I'd just be paying for more places to live

iawfjnl2d

i hope working for US companies never dries up for me 😅

ltsdvevuvqmp2d

nnkwhztguldfpwpbn Yeah. And the tax optimization that's possible. In Germany I would pay like 50% in taxes 😱

vppuxkqbumvgr2d

Haha yeaj

ubyhawhzdyqdj2d

Let's hope 🤞

tzbimby2d

i mean, i guess the perk would be being able to actually _live_ somewhere else

uusljxy2d

but going back to an in office + less than half the money...

rvjufjw2d

i mean, i know european companies/living in europe gives benefits that don't translate but still

qiwysracsvhdcnmc2d

Then if savings are equal, CoL can matter a lot. I have a cousin with kids in egypt, she has a dedicated full time driver for something like $250 CAD/month and also a nanny for something similar so she can operate a business which is nearly impossible in North America where child for ONE kid can be something like $2500+/month.

tnrdceywevogp2d

Yeah

dqljjocyjdvyq2d

Huge difference

fdaolrzktfbvt2d

Wow

ndjhbrthyxqhmwim2d

That's why when I have kids my home base will not be in Canada because it sounds like a nightmare to raise children in North America.

zdzudveradasb2d

That's so much

wqlwrou2d

i've seen this argument a lot and when i did match savings could never really be equal

cjwvnkr2d

you could have a much better life, certainly

jhnwvxhctcibb2d

I won't be having kids, but I've got a lot of other plans that will cost money

zzlckna2d

not comparing SF salary + SF life vs living in berlin or something, it's more comparing my own situation, which is typically getting higher city tier (but not SF level) salaries and nomading or living in a MCOL city in the US

wpmljwyrnrtwscaz2d

MCOL?

ezczzxm2d

medium cost of living

nswnguqtnqrav2d

I thought the US had just high and low 😛

awnuuwh2d

like getting a NYC salary and living in chicago seems to work out significantly better in savings for me than getting a job in berlin and living in berlin

yykzfzxqdwowh2d

Berlin is a pretty great city to live in

axeyfdj2d

truth

jgjybyezdybqx2d

But so is NYC

kpeslbeoaofhzncz2d

Ya in developed countries you can certainly live way cheaper. Living in Hamilton/London is going to be cheaper than Toronto, point is if you are mobile geography (even if it is domestic) has a huge impact on your savings.

vlukcqzvojvti2d

I consider Bangkok significantly more developed than the other two, waiting for world bank to notice 😆

rgtqqvsmujgnzhd2d

likewise.am/2014/12/26/what-armenians-should-know-about-life-in-america/|What Armenians Should Know >

gmipjghcxxaezxu2d

Long story short, you should live anywhere other than America

xmjfwvetaeqqb2d

That sounds long and possibly boring

qetvvodvnexvg2d

But I agree with your premise

eacgnwqamwqnwtrq2d

My wife is Colombian/Canadian and she got messages from relatives like, "Hey can you send me an Xbox or ps4"

hxskrdzvfybxn2d

Taxes 🤷‍♂️

pfyrtqjttoquyemv2d

Like everyone there is so rich and Xboxs and ps4 are cheap.

ofdulezrdzpmy2d

I buy almost all electronics from America

nsuxucpgwpknmpum2d

No no, I mean they want it for free.

etsonazfvzsnc2d

Oh lol

sbnxiccdulftahhs2d

Not, can I send you money to buy one. lol

gsaxfdbwxbhen2d

I mean, I guess I'd do that too

huhbqzdprrrue2d

Family is family right?

hwhpwycqkuune2d

Wouldn't recommend the PS4 this year though;)

hcmrsbvodwhjjnqh2d

I have some other stupid things as well, like cousins racking up debt and then going to their Canadian relatives and asking for 10k CAD because they are all so rich.

fvqpotcyowdycczw2d

or thinking that is a small amount of money

tsilqztxguzsh2d

Okay there is a line between helping and enabling

fbfatvlxdeewn2d

Definitely should be careful about drawing that

kcvohcnauvvjogyt2d

Well it also has to do with education. 1000 COL = 0.35 CAD. 10,000 COL = 3.52. There isn't really an awareness to the uneducated about the concept of different countries having vastly different currency amounts.

yxuxkadfnjvqytis2d

So they might incorrectly assume that if something is 1000 COL in colombia, it would be 1000 CAD in Canada but the CAD just converts better.

xjxfjwk2d

vrekspztckkycc even Canada has 1/2 the rates of US companies basically.

cbyiueq2d

Nobody offers US rates anywhere.

czhuatve2d

Hell, two thirds of the US doesn't even offer "US rates" 😂

sirqhuq2d

Well, I am not even talking SF or NY rates.

wnppeti2d

I am talking average US rates.

qhupddnc2d

I could make less as a developer in my hometown than I could in any European major city.

ifvrdmc2d

In Canada you'd be lucky to get 100K CAD. Which is only 71,450 USD.

qarahyxf2d

Pretty sure devs in Ohio are averaging around 60k

kjpdtqb2d

Maybe 😄 But devs in some Manitoba rural town probably making 50K CAD too 😄

ooawgvh2d

I am talking major cities like Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver

muiyankt2d

According to random Google results, average salary in Toronto is $73k and in Cleveland $62k.

nehrosbe2d

Although... I think I'm comparing CAD to USD 😅 Oops

jvpxhvxbcwfoa2d

ixdkcadt I expect you _can_ get US rates anywhere, but you would have to be sufficiently differentiated which is much easier said than done

fohuizc2d

xjcbpmyuhnzvvd are you differentiated? I thought we were talking about your specific case 😄

aqbkyqzbkdcnn2d

I would like to be! The reality is lots of people can do what I do.

wzunadecmsdnf2d

But we're also talking about a hypothetical future plan

wvgzfyrfj2d

A US company I’m freelancing for tried to set my rate according to what employees in Toronto usually make. That’s like inverse
of “internationally competitive with US” 😛

vnulbaekqldea2d

Maybe my part of the US tech sector will be okay

nwgbimeoxvxuq2d

Did you successfully set them straight?

pjjmixxdu2d

Yea I had to have a pretty candid conversation with them about how no one will be happy if they’re stuck on that mindset.

trmmtufeovzeo2d

Well done!

ktijpqsoijnvi2d

I also don't discount for location, and encourage others not to

gujuuffza2d

Then I proved to them that at my freelancing hourly rate they will have this feature cheaper and quicker than if they tried to build it themselves

bxymgguxchyxg2d

The value of my work to their customers is the same

owkddxkgbgjkn2d

It's definitely possible to demonstrate that

wqmivough2d

Yea it’s fine if you’re hiring a fulltime employee to some degree, but if it’s hired “muscle” you’re bringing in specially do a unit of work you should be expect to making a business deal and not hiring replacement value commodities.

zqdcxowguouof2d

Well said

btqhhgaltisbd2d

Man, I'd be the _worst_ hired muscle. I'm so glad I learned a different skill

yzgqhqpon2d

Yea I’m usually not a “specialist” in something, but in this case I single handedly built this large system they want me to work on, so I’m going to be a specialist damn it :P

okjdgxwl2d

> Nobody offers US rates anywhere.

I know of this list github.com/yanirs/established-remote with a globally competitive column that kinda shows companies ready to pay the same rate in any location (although from what I can see that's not always accurate). but yeah, all those folks seem to be US based companies

xxizsredvsv2d

another thing to keep in mind, as per my limited knowledge, work culture in East Asia countries (SK, Japan etc.) is way different than in Western ones (stricter hierarchies, more workaholic, save of face etc.)

ijcpqnrd1d

I guess Switzerland and probably Norway easily beat US rates. 🤑

tfexnmoaojv1d

Hey guys, does anybody needs help with a frontend (react-based) project? I’m a David, 31 years old senior react developer from germany, looking for a little work.

zahnazzu17h

That's perfect

nnssgmgd17h

Hello, I'm a Frackend Engineer

ajtdotja17h

You're a full stack developer? Well I'm a frackend engineer

eujdlytefwffzvn17h

Full stack is so yesterday

vzrrepydthveoe17h

yeah just saw post looking for "Junior Full Stack" so I guess there are levels of "Fullstack" now

vubemboqkvhgj17h

The frackending is coming, folks