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zxqcxnqwgwuuw2d
Good to know it does exist
ioybcwhzaonc2d
At least the taxes would be very low there
wkejnw2d
Also comparing wages between countries might be a bit misleading depending on the number of paid vacation days and other benefits. In US you are lucky with 10 days a year, in Germany 20 is minimum and 25 or 30 pretty standard.
dgrblkkylbpqm2d
Yeah I know I used the word salary but I'd probably have to stick with consulting realistically for all of the above reasons
edxedegoxsryu2d
(which is what I'm actually doing now)
suvgzbkkkgbmo2d
But if working with Americans stops working out, I'd be looking for my next best option whatever that is
meuxmqenflnvqlwk2d
I am not really sure raw numbers matter as much as income-expenses. If you can make 5k/month and put a away 3k/month in savings, you are doing better than devs in SF at 9-10k/month who may be putting away nothing.
ftqgyoihthtpi2d
They seem like they might not be doing so hot over there this month
vruvopxmmxfgo2d
Yeah I mean I'd have to sell property and stuff for that kind of adjustment to actually work for me
nbldxbacmiqfm2d
More realistically I'd just be paying for more places to live
iawfjnl2d
i hope working for US companies never dries up for me ๐Ÿ˜…
ltsdvevuvqmp2d
nnkwhztguldfpwpbn Yeah. And the tax optimization that's possible. In Germany I would pay like 50% in taxes ๐Ÿ˜ฑ
vppuxkqbumvgr2d
Haha yeaj
ubyhawhzdyqdj2d
Let's hope ๐Ÿคž
tzbimby2d
i mean, i guess the perk would be being able to actually _live_ somewhere else
uusljxy2d
but going back to an in office + less than half the money...
rvjufjw2d
i mean, i know european companies/living in europe gives benefits that don't translate but still
qiwysracsvhdcnmc2d
Then if savings are equal, CoL can matter a lot. I have a cousin with kids in egypt, she has a dedicated full time driver for something like $250 CAD/month and also a nanny for something similar so she can operate a business which is nearly impossible in North America where child for ONE kid can be something like $2500+/month.
tnrdceywevogp2d
Yeah
dqljjocyjdvyq2d
Huge difference
fdaolrzktfbvt2d
Wow
ndjhbrthyxqhmwim2d
That's why when I have kids my home base will not be in Canada because it sounds like a nightmare to raise children in North America.
zdzudveradasb2d
That's so much
wqlwrou2d
i've seen this argument a lot and when i did match savings could never really be equal
cjwvnkr2d
you could have a much better life, certainly
jhnwvxhctcibb2d
I won't be having kids, but I've got a lot of other plans that will cost money
zzlckna2d
not comparing SF salary + SF life vs living in berlin or something, it's more comparing my own situation, which is typically getting higher city tier (but not SF level) salaries and nomading or living in a MCOL city in the US
wpmljwyrnrtwscaz2d
MCOL?
ezczzxm2d
medium cost of living
nswnguqtnqrav2d
I thought the US had just high and low ๐Ÿ˜›
awnuuwh2d
like getting a NYC salary and living in chicago seems to work out significantly better in savings for me than getting a job in berlin and living in berlin
yykzfzxqdwowh2d
Berlin is a pretty great city to live in
axeyfdj2d
truth
jgjybyezdybqx2d
But so is NYC
kpeslbeoaofhzncz2d
Ya in developed countries you can certainly live way cheaper. Living in Hamilton/London is going to be cheaper than Toronto, point is if you are mobile geography (even if it is domestic) has a huge impact on your savings.
vlukcqzvojvti2d
I consider Bangkok significantly more developed than the other two, waiting for world bank to notice ๐Ÿ˜†
gmipjghcxxaezxu2d
Long story short, you should live anywhere other than America
xmjfwvetaeqqb2d
That sounds long and possibly boring
qetvvodvnexvg2d
But I agree with your premise
eacgnwqamwqnwtrq2d
My wife is Colombian/Canadian and she got messages from relatives like, "Hey can you send me an Xbox or ps4"
hxskrdzvfybxn2d
Taxes ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
pfyrtqjttoquyemv2d
Like everyone there is so rich and Xboxs and ps4 are cheap.
ofdulezrdzpmy2d
I buy almost all electronics from America
nsuxucpgwpknmpum2d
No no, I mean they want it for free.
etsonazfvzsnc2d
Oh lol
sbnxiccdulftahhs2d
Not, can I send you money to buy one. lol
gsaxfdbwxbhen2d
I mean, I guess I'd do that too
huhbqzdprrrue2d
Family is family right?
hwhpwycqkuune2d
Wouldn't recommend the PS4 this year though;)
hcmrsbvodwhjjnqh2d
I have some other stupid things as well, like cousins racking up debt and then going to their Canadian relatives and asking for 10k CAD because they are all so rich.
fvqpotcyowdycczw2d
or thinking that is a small amount of money
tsilqztxguzsh2d
Okay there is a line between helping and enabling
fbfatvlxdeewn2d
Definitely should be careful about drawing that
kcvohcnauvvjogyt2d
Well it also has to do with education. 1000 COL = 0.35 CAD. 10,000 COL = 3.52. There isn't really an awareness to the uneducated about the concept of different countries having vastly different currency amounts.
yxuxkadfnjvqytis2d
So they might incorrectly assume that if something is 1000 COL in colombia, it would be 1000 CAD in Canada but the CAD just converts better.
xjxfjwk2d
vrekspztckkycc even Canada has 1/2 the rates of US companies basically.
cbyiueq2d
Nobody offers US rates anywhere.
czhuatve2d
Hell, two thirds of the US doesn't even offer "US rates" ๐Ÿ˜‚
sirqhuq2d
Well, I am not even talking SF or NY rates.
wnppeti2d
I am talking average US rates.
qhupddnc2d
I could make less as a developer in my hometown than I could in any European major city.
ifvrdmc2d
In Canada you'd be lucky to get 100K CAD. Which is only 71,450 USD.
qarahyxf2d
Pretty sure devs in Ohio are averaging around 60k
kjpdtqb2d
Maybe ๐Ÿ˜„ But devs in some Manitoba rural town probably making 50K CAD too ๐Ÿ˜„
ooawgvh2d
I am talking major cities like Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver
muiyankt2d
According to random Google results, average salary in Toronto is $73k and in Cleveland $62k.
nehrosbe2d
Although... I think I'm comparing CAD to USD ๐Ÿ˜… Oops
jvpxhvxbcwfoa2d
ixdkcadt I expect you _can_ get US rates anywhere, but you would have to be sufficiently differentiated which is much easier said than done
fohuizc2d
xjcbpmyuhnzvvd are you differentiated? I thought we were talking about your specific case ๐Ÿ˜„
aqbkyqzbkdcnn2d
I would like to be! The reality is lots of people can do what I do.
wzunadecmsdnf2d
But we're also talking about a hypothetical future plan
wvgzfyrfj2d
A US company Iโ€™m freelancing for tried to set my rate according to what employees in Toronto usually make. Thatโ€™s like inverse
of โ€œinternationally competitive with USโ€ ๐Ÿ˜›
vnulbaekqldea2d
Maybe my part of the US tech sector will be okay
nwgbimeoxvxuq2d
Did you successfully set them straight?
pjjmixxdu2d
Yea I had to have a pretty candid conversation with them about how no one will be happy if theyโ€™re stuck on that mindset.
trmmtufeovzeo2d
Well done!
ktijpqsoijnvi2d
I also don't discount for location, and encourage others not to
gujuuffza2d
Then I proved to them that at my freelancing hourly rate they will have this feature cheaper and quicker than if they tried to build it themselves
bxymgguxchyxg2d
The value of my work to their customers is the same
owkddxkgbgjkn2d
It's definitely possible to demonstrate that
wqmivough2d
Yea itโ€™s fine if youโ€™re hiring a fulltime employee to some degree, but if itโ€™s hired โ€œmuscleโ€ youโ€™re bringing in specially do a unit of work you should be expect to making a business deal and not hiring replacement value commodities.
zqdcxowguouof2d
Well said
btqhhgaltisbd2d
Man, I'd be the _worst_ hired muscle. I'm so glad I learned a different skill
yzgqhqpon2d
Yea Iโ€™m usually not a โ€œspecialistโ€ in something, but in this case I single handedly built this large system they want me to work on, so Iโ€™m going to be a specialist damn it :P
okjdgxwl2d
> Nobody offers US rates anywhere.

I know of this list github.com/yanirs/established-remote with a globally competitive column that kinda shows companies ready to pay the same rate in any location (although from what I can see that's not always accurate). but yeah, all those folks seem to be US based companies
xxizsredvsv2d
another thing to keep in mind, as per my limited knowledge, work culture in East Asia countries (SK, Japan etc.) is way different than in Western ones (stricter hierarchies, more workaholic, save of face etc.)
ijcpqnrd1d
I guess Switzerland and probably Norway easily beat US rates. ๐Ÿค‘
tfexnmoaojv1d
Hey guys, does anybody needs help with a frontend (react-based) project? Iโ€™m a David, 31 years old senior react developer from germany, looking for a little work.
zahnazzu17h
That's perfect
nnssgmgd17h
Hello, I'm a Frackend Engineer
ajtdotja17h
You're a full stack developer? Well I'm a frackend engineer
eujdlytefwffzvn17h
Full stack is so yesterday
vzrrepydthveoe17h
yeah just saw post looking for "Junior Full Stack" so I guess there are levels of "Fullstack" now
vubemboqkvhgj17h
The frackending is coming, folks
gydgiynacaa16h
Frackend.. niceโ€ฆ
allzrlyvjhu16h
Canโ€™t speak to ya, Iโ€™m frackending right now
dcnsppf16h
Looking for a strong Rust dev for a short/medium-term gig building some blockchain-related stuff!
xwzdthsm15h
frackend sounds like something in the oil industry ๐Ÿค”
uywoomashzuuan15h
frackend is the end, winter it will send
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