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# argentina53min# ___introductions55min# _legal55min# europe1h# _photography1h# _covid191h# united-states1h# vietnam1h# spain2h# italy2h# latin-america2h# thailand2h# ecuador2h# _taxes-us2h# germany2h# mexico3h# greece3h# _marketing3h# bali3h# _gear3h# _coders4h# united-kingdom4h# _fitness5h# ukraine5h# georgia6h# _flying6h# portugal7h# morocco7h# dubai8h# czechia8h# _bug-reports9h# malta9h# panama11h# turkey12h# _productivity13h# _jobs-talk13h# canada13h# _show-and-tell17h# _bargain-travel23h# _music1d# bulgaria1d# africa1d# _housing1d# _food1d# _outdoors1d# poland1d# asia1d# netherlands1d# france1d# croatia2d# estonia2d# hungary2d# serbia2d# _relationships2d# sweden2d# austria2d# brazil3d# slovenia3d# colombia3d# australia3d# _money3d# romania3d# _parents3d# denmark4d# peru4d# costa-rica4d# _overland-travel4d# chile4d# _lgbtq4d# canary-islands5d# hong-kong5d# cyprus5d# india6d# indonesia6d# _crypto6d# lithuania6d# _freelance6d# norway7d# mauritius7d# _stonks7d# guatemala8d# south-korea8d# _startups8d# _insurance8d# south-africa10d# _pets10d# israel11d# miami11d# russia12d# china13d# north-macedonia15d# cuba15d# bolivia18d# malaysia18d# finland18d# sri-lanka21d# japan21d# __announcements27d# _for_rent27d# _design29d# switzerland29d# singapore29d# new-zealand30d# _books1mo# kuwait1mo# montenegro1mo# saudi-arabia1mo# taiwan1mo# belgium1mo# iceland1mo# nicaragua1mo# ___general2mo# cambodia2mo# egypt2mo# philippines2mo# austin2mo# middle-east2mo# chiang-mai2mo# puerto-rico2mo# dominican-republic2mo# london3mo
TransferWise has virtual VISA card, have you tried them?
Often companies donโ€™t accept prepaid cards.
Ha yzlflqt beat me to it.
Wow, this looks outstanding, thank you
Revolut has virtual cards you can "charge" also they got this auto disposable virtual (shopping) cards too. Where it gets re-generated after every purchase ๐Ÿ˜„
i use virtual cards from revolut and transferwise. they are great. re "companies do not accept prepaid cards" I have only had them rejected by airlines. works for all online stuff etc I have tried.
I use Transferwise and agree with vpsuebojkepp
```Anyone in here use Interchange Financial by chance? Or know a good platform to do USD > CAD with good rates?```
Usd -> usdc through coinbase -> move usdc to Canadian exchange -> convert to cad
oh right I guess I could route it that way as well tooโ€ฆ. interesting
say you move to a low tax country to build wealth

say you build wealth for 3, 4 years

say you wanna take that wealth back to your home country, which is not low tax

how does that work?

asking for a friend
I guess it heavily depends on what your home country is? But I think it's safe to say that your home country won't retroactively tax you for income you earned, only for capital gains once you're a resident again and are selling assets with profit
The UK will retroactively tax you if you move back there within 5 years
Though need to get more info on that from a financial professional, which I am not.
Really?! That doesn't sound right to me, how could they retroactively tax you for income that you earned while living in another country and paid tax on there? Do you have any links or know what to search for? UK definitely has some complicated rules around wealth though with the remittance basis taxation
move to countries with digital nomad visas as tax resistance. Cash out while you life there
olgvnyskv I think you're talking about people who already have wealth and want to save on capital gains, whereas the question was more about saving on income tax to build wealth
same, but ask a tax specialist. It really depends where you are from
You can always keep your wealth under some entity and own nothing as an individual, either locally or in a foreign jurisdiction. Then you can get loans, or dividends or anything that works the best for your situation in your particular place of tax-residency.
Not the easiest stuff for Americans but other nations have it pretty easy.
so case in point is generating wealth in georgia and eventually taking this back to spain to re-invest it in property
I donโ€™t think there is a problem with taking money specifically, but there are some things you have to be careful with:
1. Capital gains tax (some countries consider leaving/entering a country as a capital gains event)
2. Some countries have a wealth / high-income tax - I believe Spain is one of them too
I donโ€™t know about Georgia and Spain but theoretically you could have a UK/US pass through entity that has foreign companies as partners, not you personally. Those partners would be companies in territorial taxation countries. Those companies would later invest money for you and give you or your day-to-day company loans or something else. Then you could use that day-to-day company to pay yourself minimum salary and receive the rest in the most optimized way given your place of tax residency or just spend the money for biz related reasons that are usually lionโ€™s share of all expenses (travel, lodging, transport, etc.). It could be a credit card with lots of perks for you to get value from as well ;). Or you could get nothing via employment income and get dividends instead or maybe nothing at all if you already have savings thatโ€™ll last for a while. It all depends on the amount of money weโ€™re talking about and your financial situation. Just some pointers, I hope thatโ€™s helpful.
Something I would get advice on, if freelancing or running one's own business - and not under regular employment.
With the retrospective taxation, Iโ€™ve been advised that applies to money that you make in the UK. E.g. say you build up some funds in a company bank account while UK resident, then head off to Dubai or Cyprus and pay yourself a monster dividend, this is where the 5y (really 6y because of the UKโ€™s non-overlapping financial year) kicks in.
If youโ€™ve gone to Dubai or Cyprus, made money there and paid yourself while there, you shouldnโ€™t suffer additional taxation if you move to the UK even within 5 years (but again, pay attention to the differing tax years).
Useful info
Actually you shouldn't be wealthy at all. Open a company that hold your wealth instead.
Generally a good strategy, aside from the allowances that you get; such as in UK.
~$16k tax free income + ~$16k capital gains annually - which companies don't get
Iโ€™m pretty sure Canada will retroactively tax you when bringing wealth back as well
UK also has ISAs (I think the US has Roth IRA that's like that?), so you can be a millionaire and never pay any capital gains tax if you invest 20k every year
KnightsbridgeFX
lokpkbnldrknhy I remember reading an article that the biggest "foreign investors" in Spain are Spaniards themselves. They set up a company, and buy the property through it, thus avoiding the property transfer tax or something of the sort. Probably a foreign entity since the article was about "foreign investors in Spain"
yeah ISAs are great
tbh if you know what you're doing, the UK is pretty well set up for not paying much tax....
There's also the EIS scheme for investments, where you can invest up to ยฃ1m per year - you get 33% of what you put in back as a tax refund (50% if the company you invest in fails). And 0% cap gains on exit.
Also SEIS, which is for riskier early stage, but is 50% tax back, 75% back on company failure, and same rules otherwise.
So with EIS - you've effectively doubled the valuation of your shareholding, because only 50% of what you put in is at risk.
I wonder if it will continue this way. They cut entrepreneurโ€™s relief (whereby you only pay 10% cap gains on liquidating a company) by 90% last March. Tories unrecognisable in this respect. Bexit ainโ€™t gonna pay for itself.
yeah EIS has been slightly under attack since it's inception as 'too generous
there's a sunset clause (which was put in place from the beginning), I think next year - to review whether to continue it.
Hey everyone! Do you know any investment tracking application or ready-to-use spreadsheets? Not only for stocks, crypto and properties as well for example.
Thanks! It looks very nice.
I moved from the US to Portugal and contacted them through the in-app โ€˜secure messageโ€™ system and they basically told me I had to create a new account for my PT/EU residency and transfer my assets over, which Iโ€™m in the middle of the process right now. Not impressed because I was led to believe that IBKR makes it easier to move countries and change legal/tax residency compared to other brokerages
naz16d
rjcfmqrro how much diligence have you done regarding their data sharing practices, privacy etc.? I'm not saying they are selling your data or anything, just strange to see a free financial product like that ๐Ÿ˜…
So far I have only read their privacy policy and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary
Until recently, they only had a free tier but they launched their "Plus" offering allowing you to track more investments than you could on the free tier
They are still at an early stage so it makes sense to me to offer a free tier to attract potential customers
Ahhhh here it is. I was gonna build this product, and couldn't find any viable competitors lol
That said - seems US-centric
or French
This is a french startup but they're currently expanding to European countries and planning to expand even further
Their roadmap is public www.notion.so/Finary-Roadmap-d7b515028f254e21bc198a9d9d819821
I have to say I'm also very interested in Maybe but they don't have any public product yet
The thing I want to build, has direct integrations into UK Open Banking, as well as other APIs e.g. Binance
Issue with Open Banking, is the degree of FCA approval you need. And being a solopreneur digital nomad with no real solid base anywhere, is gonna put that application at risk... Which is kinda understandable given you'd have access to everyone's bank account balances and transactions....
Not having the direct integrations though makes the thing basically just the same as the spreadsheet I already use having to copy paste values in.
What would your FIRE program look like if you were able to save about 50Kโ‚ฌ a year, and you wanted to retire in around 7 years, starting from 0โ‚ฌ?
Interesting information, thank you all!
Bitcoin ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
Better than real estate? With these hypothetical savings one could potentially buy one property per year, and live off of rent in 7 years time, from 7 different properties.
It depends on your annual expenses. But Iโ€™d personally put it all in VWCE.
Where would you buy those properties fbtrbqsdoknbcg
Thinking of a high return place with low buying prices like the Canary Islands
fox15d
FNILX performs better than VWCE, sfvxyrbwrcato fyi ๐Ÿค—
If you just saved it then you'd have 350k. You could get pretty much guaranteed 6% yield on that per year which would be ~21k per year but would go down in value over time.

I feel like to do it that way you need more โ‚ฌ for it to be worthwhile, so it's maybe more of an end game scenario. So your idea of property sounds like it could be more apt in your situation. If you can get low interest mortgages then you can do even more with your money too as your main outgoing will be deposits. Buying property in Cayman islands is something I've thought about too, but spain is well known for lots of bureaucracy and slow processes. Would be interested to hear from people who have been through this process!
fox15d
Iโ€™ve looked to do the same in the Canary Islands - but 50K properties arenโ€™t that great. And you have to consider where most people stay? Coastal resorts? Airbnbs?
fox15d
xjscnjohut Very true - the RE taxes alone make it a nightmare. Acquiring properties in Spain will eat into your gains real fast.
Itโ€™s American though mkfzl right? Donโ€™t think it can be bought through Europe brokers.
fox15d
Oh I thought VWCE was too - good point!
> It does seem to be more about minimizing inheritance tax though (which is very country specific)
Actually you also benefit when you're alive since instead of selling 4% of your stocks every year you are borrowing against them (so no capital gains, meaning you could withdraw 3/3.5% instead), leaving room for even more growth
> Leveraging your investments obviously always comes with extra risk.
Indeed, although, if you're careful you can leverage with very little risk. For instance you would use your Total world ETF as collateral and only borrow up to 25% of its value. I doubt a crash would crash a total world index by 75%. If that happens, then I think money will be the least of your problems ๐Ÿ˜…
My plan is to use the borrowed money to buy myself a house cash because:
1. It diversifies my portfolio (not everything would be in stock, and I would have a roof over my head)
2. You have a lot of leverage as a cash buyer, meaning you can ask for better price for the house
3. No complications to access the money, 5min of positions transfers and you're done
This is something that is very easy to do if you're with IBKR, and their margin loan is only at 1.6% (even lower than a real mortgage)
and if you borrow a large sum it's even less
And remember, when you borrow, you still own your shares (but they may be subject to liquidation), meaning your portfolio keeps growing year over year and on a simplistic note:
โ€ข Lets assume it continues growing ~7% year
โ€ข The 25% value of the margin loan grows at 0.4% of your total stock value (1.6 / 4)
โ€ข You withdraw 3.5%/year on the borrowed money
You end up effectively withdrawing less than 4%/year while paying no taxes, and your portfolio full value continues compounding over the years (whereas if you withdrawn you would loose that part of your portfolio that you could have been left untouched for compounding)
This is the way I understand it, my reasoning might be flawed so feel free to correct me
> Always seemed a lot more diversified and less hassle to me than property.
100% agree, that's why I didn't do real estate yet and my first buy would be my own house

> Not having any gaols to work towards gets boring and depressing very quickly.
My goals are all set, I do not plan to retire until I die, or it gets boring like you say ๐Ÿ™‚ . The only difference when I will "FIRE" is that I will be working on my own projects full time (which are currently done only in the weekends)
rimu15d
The only flaw I can see is the expectation of continual growth at 7%. That's a doubling in size every 10 years.



In certain countries the last 13 years have been a bit crazy, economically speaking, with lots of money printing, frothy growth, etc. How long can it last? No one knows.

I'm pretty sure it won't continue until after my death, tho.
> The only flaw I can see is the expectation of continual growth at 7%.
Yep indeed, if that one falls apart then the whole loan scheme collapses.
But in my case I would use that margin loan to buy my own house instead of buying more shares, essentially making it a "mortgage loan" without the disadvantages of a real mortgage loan which are:
โ€ข Leverage (when you buy cash the seller is more keen to sell you the house since you do not need approval from the bank)
โ€ข Monthly repayment (with the margin loan I can choose when to reimburse the loan)
โ€ข Lower interest rate, IBKR interest rate is at 1.6% and can be as low as 0.75%, I don't know of any mortgage that would be that low
โ€ข Access to the global market (most of the time, with a mortgage the bank would not lend you money for a house outside their domestic market whereas with a margin loan there is no question asked, you have plenty of currencies to choose from and you can pick your house wherever you want in the world)
So if there is no 7% growth of my portfolio, it's fine, I would still have a roof over my head that I bought with much better terms than a traditional loan
I also plan with 7% personally, as that has been the case for over the last 100 years. Obviously it's not consistent at all though, you can have very bad years and even decades without much growth at all. That said, the 4% safe withdrawal rate says an unleveraged portfolio is very unlikely to be depleted within 30 years (based on historic stock market development). If part of your portfolio is leveraged (which it is in this case), you're also more exposed to downswings and probably should simulate what a safe withdrawal rate would be for that portfolio
Tbh I do not plan to make it a "hard 4% rule", some years would be 3%, some other maybe 6%, depending on the market and what I need.
Even if I withdraw 6% and on the same year my portfolio only grew 1% it's fine, since I do not plan to "stop working for the rest of my life" and just shift my focus to my personal projects, I have no doubts that someday those project will pay back, allowing me to withdraw less money from my portfolio ๐Ÿ™‚
RE for me will basically just be Shifting the focus of work for someone to the focus of work for myself ๐Ÿ˜›
Wealthsimple ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ just launched fractional shares
Anyone here trade options? Looking for some good resources to learn more about covered calls and generally getting started.
I'm not deeply into it yet but my buddy just got me into Tasty Trade (cant post link because of rules here - just google it). ย It seems very comprehensive, advanced and has an active community. Click the "Learn" tab at the top for much educational material.
Yeah thats the one which you can use in the UK so I'd be using that too. I think I'll paper trade on thinkorswim for a while first though
Why VUSD instead of VUSA? I have always invested in VUSA but that's from research about 5 years ago.
It's the same really, I just like getting some dividends from time to time, feels good ๐Ÿ˜„
naz4d
Are there real-estate investors around? Specifically, agricultural land in Eastern Europe? I'm gearing up to try out the land market in Ukraine ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Looking for contacts to validate few assumptions and trade ideas with.
Foreigners are prohibited from owning it though
naz4d
They are, for next few years. I bet the market will open up eventually. Owning through relatives who still have UA passport isn't prohibited -allows to learn the intricacies of the market ๐Ÿ˜‰
eolrjsjuz How do you manage to invest in VWRA as a NON EU person? which bank/broker are you using?
xslgcxbacoe Interactive brokers, it's the best pick for 99% of the people who are non-US/non-EU
Hi everybody! Quick question, did anyone have any kind of issue using Payoneer card? I tried to buy flights in FlyLevel and I couldn't :(
๐Ÿ‘‹ would love to know how it goes ๐Ÿ˜‰
The โ€˜decline codeโ€™ normally gives you a good clue about the reason for the decline. For โ€˜Cardholder Presentโ€™ transactions, the code is printed on the receipt. For โ€˜Cardholder Not Presentโ€™ (CNP) it might be on the card decline page, but will definitely be on FlyLevelโ€™s back end. Common decline reasons for CNP include address/post code/country mismatch between the address you entered, and the statement address. Also โ€˜Merchant Category Codeโ€™ (MCC) black listing. Itโ€™s not uncommon for card providers to default-blacklist online travel firms, due to the massive volume and value of fraudulent transaction across the sector. So... first step is to check out the decline code. Good luck! (PS. Using an Amex to buy all travel is a very good idea nowadays)
woasnjysp Thanks! much appreciated
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