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yes
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Wow
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We went to the DTF mothership yesterday. It was wonderful.
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The one in Chengdu has been the weakest for quality.
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Burbank and Seattle and London all fair well by comparison - but the first bite at Xinyi DTF was HEAVEN.
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Jiuefen and that tea house town you get to by cable car were two of my fave experiences there.
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vasrp seems like a #_food link 😛
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it's interesting how small towns are dying off though
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even in canada
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This is less a small town thing and more just the steamroll of commodity bullshit
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People accept low quality trash nowadays- and quantity is more important than quality
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yeah that's true too
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my mom goes out of her way to support local businesses but i'm more apt to zip right over to walmart etc 😅
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I will always try to support local businesses
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especially family run ones
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for christmas, I typically buy gift certificates to family run places to pass out to people
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both to support them, but also help market them
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lighting random people on fire sure is speaking truth to power
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what the fuck
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maybe if you stab enough people in the neck
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light enough people on fire
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destroy enough of your own transit system
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everyone will magically see your way
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How dare some random truck driver try to remove the barricades so he can make a living
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Sure showing Xi who is boss
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So are air bnb prices cheaper in HK now?
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who knows - just make sure you wear fire retardant clothing
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What can I say, I am a bargain hunter.
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Seems like Trump's decision to tank the Iran deal had unforseen consequences on the dollar.
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That’s nothing new - I said that months ago. It’s the obvious response
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Iran has already been doing business in rupees with India
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Petro crypto was the main reason why us acted against Maduro
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This is well known
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After seeing the other angles, this seems a bit like a plant
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How times change
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The stated strategy of the protestors is to shut down all transit to entice the public to join in on the protests.
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asxgb wait, didn't Bernie raise his hand for decriminalizing illegal immigration?
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Also when did the right become pro-immigration?
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rgepxfoltktlfbjyw i think there's always been a sliver of the right that can see that it's good for business. more consumers, cheaper labour, blah blah blah.
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it's the nationalist, tribalist right that has issues with it
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“We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.” - Louis D. Brandeis
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i found this pretty convincing from an economic point of view, but i'm not a trained economist so i might be missing something >https://www.amazon.com/Open-Borders-Science-Ethics-Immigration/dp/1250316960> - any thoughts?
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concept of kialo seems interesting
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although that particular example i've linked is unfortunately lacking quite a few arguments on both sides
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ofmzhvnsk open borders has ALWAYS been about economics
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That’s the entire point
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The issue is 1) do you really pray at the church of gdp? Is “economics” everything? 2) “lift all boats” fallacy, which people are starting to realize was a lie
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Why do you think labor unions and the traditional left was against open borders?
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Why do you think Caesar Chavez was against illegal immigration? Because he was a mouth breathing racist?
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The left was co-opted by the big banks and globalists, which is why labor defected
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It’s not a “sliver of the right” - this was literally a Koch brothers initiative, who just a few years ago were treated as devils, until the Dems changed their platform out of political expedience (largely a reflection of a shift towards identity politics)
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Now all of a sudden they’re the good guys? Seems convenient. Dems seem to have political amnesia
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Lol this woman just won’t go away
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The “fake news” situation in HK is getting crazy. Things are fueled by crazy rumors started online.
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GDP at any cost in many ways had the opposite impact IMO in places like North America. The student debt crisis was based on the idea that education is the main driver of GDP where in reality it is only education up to a certain point. Now you have a trillion in debt and an entire generation nearly 10+ years behind.

It reminds me of a brave new world, there was this part that talked about the problem of making everyone an Alpha (educated leader) versus having a beta class (lower end workers).
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What is crazy is the government is still supporting federally insured student debt.
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.
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It’s because student debt was about accessibility
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It was birthed of good cause
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Re HK, there was a threat that if Lam didn’t resign by 9 am this morning they would burn the peak
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It’s 10:15 am
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Police roadblocks
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Meanwhile, over in Bolivia - an article worth translating for several takes if the recent events are a coup or not a coup
I was hopeful about Evo, even though Bolivia still scores poorly on the CPI index. All signs point to some election fraud. However, today's developments with the unilateral takeover by a far right senator without announcing future elections seems pretty shady
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They want Lam to resign... and be replaced by who exactly?
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I don’t think they know. There is no strategy as far as I can tell. I guess they think they’ll just escalating until the government says “ok, you win.”
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Of course, it’s not the kids that are helping pay for the damage or fix things. They get to live at home with their parents and then go out at night destroying the infrastructure of the city.
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The fight for democracy should have been incremental. How many people here that have a strong opinion on HK even know about the 2016 democracy legislation, etc? The creation of legco? The structure of legco? What the complaints with the democratic process are? What the plan has been since the handover? The history of HK governance prior to the handover?
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Today I learned the word misogynoir
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They are going to try to shut the power down tonight
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esavg are these videos you recorded?
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Not the ones I just posted, no
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But I’ve been in the middle of plenty
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They plan on targeting gas stations tonight as well
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A 70 year old man is in critical condition because they threw a brick at his head
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The news coverage in the western press is infuriatingly biased - reporting, for example, the police are running a siege on Chinese University, while the students are “defending the university.” Failing to mention, of course, that the kids were throwing stuff over the second bridge from the university onto the train tracks and lighting it on fire to shut down the MTR.
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So when the police show up to clear the bridge and arrest the students, the kids starting shouting about a “massacre.” It’s idiotic
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The student union president petitioned the high court for an injunction to block the police from entering the property (which was denied)
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My favorite part was when he cited the police tear gas lit trees on fire and was “destroying the environment” of the students
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As they destroy the school, light massive bonfires, throw Molotov cocktails, shoot arrows, etc
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This is just jackassery
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I'm honestly a little surprised at how poorly the HK authorities have been managing this crisis.
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Today I saw a post from someone I know from back home
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But in any case... _let the impeachment begin!_
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And how she unironically purchased a book from some hippy bookshop while on vacation in NYC
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"The ABC's of Socialism"
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It stresses me out when people I consider intelligent fall for this BS
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Like....
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Y tho
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I'm just in this channel to get angry 🙃
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What do you suggest kgxopwvb
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What’s blown me away is how completely off the rocker these kids are. No strategy. Just pure destruction. People are fucking petrified
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Their stated goal is to bring HK to a halt to “show the government they’re serious”
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Mandarin speakers have been targeted
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So, I’d really like to know how the HK authorities should be handling this, nryalyzy - because you seem to have ideas that no one else has
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Btw that explosion above is not confirmed. The bus is though. The first one feels like a movie set
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So take with grain of salt
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impeachment hearing here we go
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grab your popcorn!
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The problem is, the kids are in an echo chamber listening only to themselves. They literally think they’re V for Vendetta revolutionaries in some romantic war
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On top of that, I’ll be in TLV in a few days
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So I can dodge fucking rockets
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No one seems to care about the impeachment but people who want Trump gone. No one in the political chatter class has been talking about it at all. At this point, people have made their mind up on trump either way
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Dems should be focusing on the election instead of this sideshow. Win the election and move on.
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Yeah it’s so SAD at this point, they’re just grasping at strings and it’s going to backfire
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It won't pass the Senate. Impeachment passed the house with Clinton too.
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for sure, but the Dems are going to parade it around like he’s impeached
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zzlgqgtwsjggzumwh i feel like part of the point is just making the republicans commit to trump's defence?
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make it harder to be hands-off
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and dig themselves deeper into this mess
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For what? zmrtijyxu
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2020 is right around the corner
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isiux i think the argument is that it shouldn't be seen as business-as-usual, even if the election is coming. I don't have a strong stance on it myself.
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He didn’t do anything illegal - so, it may be wrong, but the people have already made up their mind on T. If the Dems make 2020 about Trump, they will lose again
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These dog and pony shows are absurd. Just opportunity for grand standing
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Half the people doing their question use their time to grandstand preparer statements
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This isn’t an inquiry
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that could easily be it too. grandstanding raises your public profile.
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It’s a choreographed performance
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and i don't think it's proven that he didn't do anything illegal.
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Of course it’s it - that’s not even a contentious claim
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No one is claiming he did something illegal
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That’s why they’re attacking on a “high crimes” generality
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It’s an abstract claim. Again, not saying right or wrong, but call a spade a spade
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i'm confused. are you saying treason or bribery wouldn't count as illegal?
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if something is a high crime, isn't it also a crime?
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No
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It’s an abstract concept
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It’s not codified law
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I can go into the constitutional components if you want to get “in the weeds”
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And negotiating with foreign actors is not “treason”
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And withholding aid is not “bribery”
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If so, every single person in the governance of the US from top to bottom would be guilty of it
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The issue at hand is whether doing it for purposes of personal political gain would constitute an impeachable offense
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LOL this opening statement is full-on tinfoil hat nonsense.
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I’d really like to know your suggestions qumgqxme since you claimed the HK authorities of handling it so poorly. Everyone here is trying to figure out what to do. I know plenty on both sides (protestors and gov/police), so would love to pass on suggestions. I’m not being sarcastic. I’m truly receptive to suggestions.
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I don't mind answering when I can devote some time to a discussion. Got my eyes on America at the moment 😅
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imhxg what if the bombings are done by chinese agents rather than HK protestors tinfoil-hat
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As I’ve said, I originally thought the violence may have been perpetrated by Chinese agents kannwktlv
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ah i missed that bit
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saw the vids and commented, didn't read 😛
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I’ve said it multiple times over the last few months
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Especially when the protests first started getting violent
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But at this point, the students are openly flouting it
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It’s odd how the universities became the incubating chambers for all of this. Bombs, attempted murder (box cutter to throat, lighting someone on fire), blowing up busses and trains, blockades on tracks to stop/derail trains
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I thought the violence at the beginning might have been false flags to justify intervention by PLA associated riot police
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But that never materialized
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These kids think this is a movie.
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My prediction... Over the next 5 years, long extended and extreme protests like in Chile, France, Hong Kong and Iraq will continue to be more common
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The next country that is going to dial it up to that level will likely be Brasil
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"protester tech" will be large emerging market
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I saw that video as well vnydkezgnxbjqb but i don’t understand how the lasers supposedly brought the drone down
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And in the comments, no one really knew either
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Would have to be a high power laser.
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You can easily get a small hand pointer laser that lights paper on fire and burns holes in plastic

Their effect is additive, like if you used four heat guns pointed at an ABS plastic bumper of a car, rather than just one
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... those lasers will also blind you or damage vision, even at a few hundred meters. But, if someone at the uni took a box from the science department, you'd have a small army like those vids
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Those lasers didn’t seem to have that type of focus
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Most of the comments are pretty incredulous that it would have “burned” it down
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More likely it was bad flying with blinded cameras or confused sensors
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Anyways, Deval Patrick might join race now
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So Patrick, Clinton, Bloomberg on the prowl - and Dems are beating the impeachment drum. Do they actually want to win 2020?
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Patrick has a good foundation, though
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He’d pull black support from Biden. Obama would likely support him. Worked at Bain, and has Wall Street connects
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He’s a really interesting 11th hour candidate
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Far more than Bloomberg who seems to just want to step in as the establishment candidate once Biden falls
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Don't you have some spare drones? Sacrifice one, and we'll do a test. I'll buy the lasers 😉
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My 2-3 gay friends are all conservatives. More so than me.
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Each of them strongly dislikes identity politics and have only ever wanted equality.
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And dislike being associated with the 100 gender stuff.
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Seems like she really likes transgendered people 🙄 >https://www.dailydot.com/irl/helen-joyce-economist-transphobia/>
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Anyway, taking a look at Hong Kong now... I still don't see what the endgame is for civil society, but my off-hand remark from yesterday was more a result of me thinking about the authorities and how they've approached things. Say I want to take the side of law and order, for example... I would be asking, how on earth has it become so chaotic? Why do so many incidents ending up on social media make the police force look like a bunch of insipid lunatics? Mass peaceful protests gave way to sporadic violence on behalf of the protestors, but the power dynamic still favours the police, government, and other authorities... so why haven't they got a better handle on things? I mean, it's hard not to follow this stuff and start thinking that the police actively _want_ to stir things up, rather than restore order. But it's also exhausting to have to constantly parse new information and figure out whether it is merely propaganda and spin, or something real, and what the context might be, etc. Basically, even with Sinophobia and anti-China bias in the West (and on English majority social media channels), I'm surprised the HK and PRC authorities have so completely lost control of the narrative.
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So maybe the logic, many months ago, was that any concessions to the protestors would be a slippery slope, and perhaps the authorities (particularly the big bosses in Beijing) were concerned about the protest spreading into the PRC... but I don't think it would have been such a big deal to satisfy most of the initial demands demands, release protestors, drop "rioting" charges, and conduct a legitimately independent inquiry into police action and such. I realize that universal suffrage is a non-starter for the authorities but they didn't really do much to take the wind out of the sail of the protestors, which feels like a missed opportunity. HK is not a democracy, its leaders don't need to concern themselves with short-term changes in the will of the electorate, so why not just come back to whatever political goal they were hoping to achieve with the extradition bill?
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they’ve lost control of the narrative in the channels you follow, perhaps bkamlhjr
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I was blown away by the one side statements made by US authorities in the past few days
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I always approach the narratives of governments with healthy skepticism, but the statements put out were borderline fraud - carefully crafted to incite the situation and bolster the “counter insurgency” in the region
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no doubt, to America’s advantage - given the fact that destabilizing the region gives great leverage
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Well I'm sure China has control of domestic channels, but what good is that in this case?
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with that said, I understand why the US is doing it, and don’t fault them, but that doesn’t make the American narrative any less fallacious
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I’m not just talking about Chinese channels
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I’m talking about the Hong Kong people
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I don’t care about Chinese media
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or what happens on the mainland
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there is no love lost for China
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(for me)
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you have this weird echo chamber that’s been created around the students - online forums, whatsapp groups, etc
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they’re all actively spreading disinformation just as much as the chinese authorities are domestically
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I'm just not sure how anyone could look at the last six months in Hong Kong and not conclude that its leaders have royally fucked up
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Yeah, I find the disinformation tide really exhausting. And I'm very aware of imperial American interests in fomenting conflict in HK etc.
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I think there were some missteps, but this counter insurgency has been fed for the last two years
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maybe three
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it was already on the radar two years ago - that’s why the journalist’s visa was denied last year
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American and British assets were actively cultivating it
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again, I don’t fault them, it’s geopolitics - but let’s call a spade a spade
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I also think people severely underestimated the breakdown modernity has had on canto culture, for better or worse
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even 10 years ago, it would have been unfathomable that the young generation would defy the older generations, throw bricks at them, etc
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this is a hong kong, culturally, that I simply don’t recognize
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the same reason, btw, that I decided not to raise my kids here half a decade ago
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the echo chamber that the kids have created for themselves has reached hyperbole bordering caricature
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“massacres?” “june 4?”
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it would be funny if it wasn’t so frightening
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it’s the kind of hyperbole and silly exaggeration that is endemic of youth
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the characteristics of this “counter insurgency” are very youthful - in both good and bad ways
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passionate and idealistic, but also lacking perspective, wisdom and strategy
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it’s both inspiring and terrifying at the same time in the same way that I had the balls to drive 180 mph down the highway when I was 18, with no regard for myself or others - I was invincible
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combine that with romanticized revolution, epistemic and generational closure, self-incitement, outside inducement and it’s a recipe for disaster
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I share your concerns about that.
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the protests have become pubescent tantrums - they don’t even know, substantively, what they’re asking for - and because they’re young, they don’t have the perspective to be patient for incremental development
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there was a democracy bill in 2016 - there were problems with it, so the fight continues on
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the narrative that Beijing has utterly refused democracy in HK is ignorant, at best, a brazen lie, at worst
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HK has more democracy now than it ever did under colonial rule - half the time where Chinese weren’t even allowed to own property in many parts of the colony. However the kids were all born after that. They have no recognition or remembrance of any of it. At best, the smartest of them have partially understood the legislative and governance process as well as political theory for what - 2-3 years?
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and these kids are being radicalized and their childhood lost, regurgitating crap they simply can’t fathom, and being cultivated into revolutionaries
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a 13 year old child does not have the presence of mind to understand the “five demands” enough to warrant putting his life and limb in danger, and yet he’s actively egged on as if HK is in existential peril, and the western media is complicit in this
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yes, there was some overzealous policing - of course, firing petrol bombs and slitting policeman’s throats probably didn’t help the situation
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Well, sure. So where is the HK leadership?
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but we see more violence at a traffic stop in the US
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so forgive me if I have little regard for the Americans’ admonition about anything that’s going on
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if this was the US, the national guard would have been sent in after 4 hours
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Yes, all of this I am definitely aware of.
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look at Catalonia (prob the closest comparison in the West)
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Spain was having none of that
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Carrie Lam shouldn’t have made that stupid interview, HK should have been doing more about inequality and youth unemployment (although even that is extremely complicated), the bill withdrawal thing was stupid on both sides - it was meaningless
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afaik, there were no “rioting” charges against people who didn’t commit some kind of violence or destruction of property, I could be wrong about that
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and no, I don’t think that people who have committed violence or destruction of property should be released. The HK protestors talk about rule of law, Basic Law, etc, but want it suspended when it’s convenient to them. No. I’d have far more respect if they’d take it like the revolutionary men and women they claim to be.
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This is not Gandi - they’re creating IEDs, trying to kill police, committing mass vandalism and mayhem, arguably even terrorism, by shutting down the entire transit system and endangering the welfare of the people. They use their university grounds to pelt cars, shut down a major thoroughfare, and throw burning rubble on the MTR tracks to shut it down, and then cry when the police come to shut down the party, saying they’re merely “defending the university.” What kind of rubbish is this?
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These kids don’t realize they’ve just signed their death warrant - not in the short term, but in the long term. They’ve set themselves back 10 years, at least, if not more, and may have even put the nails in the coffin of HK economically.
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China will do everything in its power to diminish HK’s value - accelerating something that was already happening.
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It's all out of control, I just don't see how further police violence and brutality is going to solve it. I mean, you can condemn kids misled by imperialist propaganda all you like, but responsibility for law and order ultimately rests with the political leadership.
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So, your suggestion is - just let the kids shut down the MTR?
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Just go ahead and let the kids shut the city down?
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Let them burn the buildings?
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Let them plant IEDs?
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If the Lam administration and HK police force had been making smart moves from the beginning and we still ended up with campuses under siege and all the rest I'd say well, sure, they did all they could, and Western interference was shockingly effective.
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Definitely not.
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I don’t quite understand what you’re suggesting
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maybe I’m just hardened to American police violence
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but the supposed HK brutality and violence is vastly overstated
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Some of my comments here are really just hindsight; if things had gone differently I don't think we'd be here, and it's important to assign responsibility to leadership. But now that we're here... just be a lot smarter about de-escalating.
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the de-escalation has to happen on both sides - and without enforcement, it’s tantamount to endorsement
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I don't have a good idea of what's going on in the HK police force, for instance. And I am definitely out of my usual frame of reference even commenting on this aspect... but I'd make it a goal to not have a single incident end up on social media in any given day.
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well, the hak yis have their own internet disinformation campaign
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it’s not a wonder that the government is being outmaneuvered on the social media front by kids, when it’s their stomping ground
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especially with western contribution
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Oh, certainly. Granted.
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I am not spending hours every day combing over what's being shared to make a deep analysis. It is just my general sense that the HK police have not been very disciplined, and it's making things a lot worse than it needs to be.
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I’ve just not seeing police reaction so wildly disproportionate, it has warranted 1) attempting to assassinate the police, 2) destroying the city’s infrastructure and 3) imploding the city economically
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I am combing through it - every day, unfortunately, I’m bombarded by it - and most of it is fake news
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like the kid that died - all the fake claims about what happened to circulated
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none turned out to be true, but it took on a life of its own
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a bit like “hands up don’t shoot” if you recall
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If you want to take yesterday's action as an example... what do you do if university kids are dropping stuff off a road? Was it absolutely necessary to take action in campus and fire off what was it, 1,000 rounds of tear gas? The whole thing looks like a total PR disaster.
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that shit never actually happened, but it became a rallying cry
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ummm, was it necessary to take action against kids shutting down the MTR?
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what are you talking about?
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are you really asking that question?
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so, kids should get to shut down the metro with impunity?
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defer to…what…the campus security? who obviously wasn’t doing their job, since the kids were even destroying the universities?
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so, you’re saying, what the government should have done was just conceded they were impotent, and let the kids shut down the central transportation system of the city
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There's a lot of options between standing down and conducting what ends up looking like a military operation.
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they were firing molotovs, arrows, and creating bonfires on the tracks, as well as destroying the entire area
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I mean, there's no reason it should ever have become this serious. This was a conflict that had the potential for a solution. And now things are indeed very bad and out of control. My general argument, admittedly not from an embedded perspective, is that continuing along this same path probably won't yield different results.
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the kids are running a military operation
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Maybe you can make the argument that the police are doing an excellent job defusing the situation, all things considered.
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the government can not signal impotence, that’s not an option
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and it’s not like the kids were giving much room for negotiations
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I don’t think they’re defusing the situation at all
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I think, at its most charitable, they’re trying to contain it
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all I’m saying is, there’s a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on
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and people saying what shouldn’t be done
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which is easy af
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and not a lot of people giving concrete suggestions
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(especially after they’ve taken the time to avail themselves of the situation)
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you and I can sit around all day long and list out what the protestors and police shouldn’t do all day long
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that shit is simple
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(with that said, I do appreciate you engaging on this, btw - I appreciate your perspective, as always)
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Well, there's no easy solutions here I suppose, hence why the conflict continues. On the positive and constructive front, I mostly think the police should be way more disciplined and accountable and the focus should be on de-escalating the conflict and out-manoeuvring violent protestors rather than engaging with them directly wherever possible (even allowing for disruptions to roads, MTR, etc.).
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But I fully recognize that I'm speaking from the armchair here. This is quite a lot of verbiage to expand on an off-hand comment though 😅
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8pm, gotta run!
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I guess the reason I’m not tracking is because I don’t know what that means in practice.
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I understand what you’re saying in the abstract, but what does that mean in explicit action?
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have a good one, brother
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fbrlplnqhucnigtwpnp I have the same experience - a majority of my gay and lesbian friends are conservative.
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they’re more vociferous about it than my hetero conservative friends
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Yeah, I think the idea that someone should have a certain political ideology because of their skin colour or sexuality is deeply bigoted.
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```
10:33PM
Meeting at Chinese University
At Chinese University, Edwin Cheng Shing-lung, who sits on the governing board at one of the colleges, is meeting protesters in a stadium. Representatives from the media were not allowed to be present at the meeting.
It is understood that Cheng has relayed to protesters an offer that if police agreed not to enter the campus, protesters should reopen Tolo Highway. No school representative is present at the site.
Cheng has also offered to let a senior pro-establishment figure endorse the deal.
The discussion, which started at about 8.30pm, has not yielded any result as of 10.15pm.
Students have reportedly asked to guarantee no one will face any legal consequence for taking part in the protests.
```
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should there be no legal consequences for what has been done - including mass destruction of property, paralyzing primary thoroughfares (tolo is a main highway), shutting down the metro, molotovs, etc? Just wondering if that’s the position you’d advise and if so, are you concerned about signaling?
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If the protesters were really serious they would endorse Hilary 2020, the clintons get stuff done.
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Well everything except win an election against Trump apparently.
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word just needs to get out that Carrie Lam has information that will lead to Hillary Clinton’s arrest
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lolol
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Carrie Lam has her emails
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done - it’s over
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It’s happening
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?
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what are you referring to aecbnldhy
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```
Maybe we self-serving old-timers have robbed our children of their future. But they are helping us dig our own graves. It's not "If we burn, you burn with us." It's "We are all burning together."

Well, dear young people, you now have your wish we can all self-destruct together.
```
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also, this covers the technical details re the university and bridge well gvuuuzwe
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the notion that these kids were just innocently defending themselves against unprovoked police is ridiculous on its face
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So what's your prescription?
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I don’t know - I really wish the west would be more balanced, instead of fomenting/instigating yjfbmsvt
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the kids wouldn’t be as emboldened as they were if it wasn’t for this type of ancillary endorsement
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the US is willing to watch HK burn because it satisfies its goals of destabilization
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and the more the US threatens the HK legislation, the more the protestors are willing to push the envelope to further inflame the situation
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these kids are under the impression the US actually gives a shit and are “supporting” them because they agree, which is sweet in its naivety
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I share those concerns, as mentioned yesterday.
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the more I thought about it, the more I agree with you at missteps from the HK gov at the beginning
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on the balance, though, this quickly started shifting the other way
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But I assign greater agency to the political authorities and police force. Students throwing petrol bombs at police isn't part of some larger emancipatory struggle with any chance of success.
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and right now, again, on balance, I put a lot of weight on the protestor’s shoulders right now - the means, the lack of coherent strategy, the sheer depravity and destruction
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they’re beating down anybody that dares to even say anything to them in disagreement
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those are the videos that don’t get shared online
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but, you’re giving wide latitude and authorization to the kids, then prxhyltq
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at some point, it’s just wanton criminality, and blaming the police is ridiculous
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if this was happening in the US, it would have been labeled terrorism
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they would have been plowed over by a paramilitary “police” force with automatic weapons and war vehicles
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you have a small group of kids who are literally shutting down the city, blocking public transit, doing billions in destruction, trying to assassinate police officers, creating IEDs, throwing molotovs, etc, etc - this has gone well beyond what any civilized society should tolerate, on either side, and the broad license people are giving to the kids to do these things is both self-serving and evil
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I'm coming at it from a pragmatic perspective. If existing actions haven't yielded desirable results try a different angle.
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Police abuse is something I care deeply about - we’ve spoken of this many times. I’m also no fan of China. What’s happening here, though, is technically terrorism.
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If it wasn’t China related, the US would have already cast it in that light.
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this kind of crap is precisely why the rest of the world hates American hegemony - it doesn’t actually operate by principle, despite the flag waving and flying eagles
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Well, yeah 😅
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So what do you do at this point? You can’t stand down, that would be bad signaling, especially in the long run. You can’t just let such actions go without punishment. You can concede your own bad approach, but accountability has to be on both sides.
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The demand by the kids that they get to act this way with impunity is not reasonable.
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like I said, I’d respect them a lot more if they were willing to take the consequences
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Just imagine if there were a Chinese state-sponsored independence movement in Guam or Puerto Rico or something.
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yeah, no kidding
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look at Cuba
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the US has kept it impoverished for shit that happened decades ago
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but the kids aren’t actually willing revolutionaries - they’re just kids playing V for Vendetta, fueled by the endorsement of parties interested in the destabilizing effect
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sit in a stadium and negotiate a “friendly gesture” of allowing a main thoroughfare to reopen that is vital for the PEOPLE to operate?
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but demand that no one gets charged for anything? these aren’t revolutionaries - jesus, have some dignity. Stand up straight and proudly for your punishment if you felt so strongly about it you were willing to destroy your city over it
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I think that’s the thing that burns me the most - they aren’t willing to face the consequences themselves, but have no problem imposing consequences on others
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these kids are treating it like a video game
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Are they going to hold moments of silence at the World Cup for a 70 year old man they murdered throwing a brick at his face?
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Maybe they should stand down and hold the university administration criminally responsible for everything then, how about that agkoembw
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The university admin has said they can handle security - I mean, that seems laughable on its face, but ok. You handle it, and if you don’t control it, you get charged. Is that fair?
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Also, making this about China is convenient, and lends itself to the narrative, but China is, at best, ancillary in this. Whenever I hear bullshit about communism and chinazi, etc - I immediately know it’s not worth listening to.
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Whenever the discussion is hk and I hear something about how many people communism has killed, I know the person has Ben Shapiro on loop in their YouTube lol
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QOTD (On 'Impartiality'):

'If someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out of the fucking window and find out which is true.'
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Fundamentally, what people say is irrelevant in the face of their actual actions and behaviors
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The model of news produced in narrative format tends to obscure the actions and behavior and focus more on he said she said..
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also, selective coverage can guide narratives in its own right
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I think people think narratives are built explicitly, rather than just framing or slight omission
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MERRRRRRRYYYYY CHRISTMAS
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A bunch of friends have had their HK and Taiwan related content flagged and removed from Facebook
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Interestingly a lot of that was friends-only posts, and it seems to be automated
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Everything from the pregnant woman getting maced (who wasn't pregnant) to someone calling out Yifang, the Taiwanese tea shop that went viral after on of their locations showed support for the HK protests
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ogcktkyy * poof *, I guess the Chinese University no longer needed “defending”
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Wonder if it was automated to clear off contents with complaints
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There’s no question there are bots working on both the Chinese and protestors side feeding the social media war
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I’ve seen lots of accounts created within the last month or so
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My own quote of the day
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Biden, KCNA said, was showing signs of “the final stage of dementia”, and the “time has come for him to depart his life”.
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“Such a guy had the temerity to dare slander the dignity of the supreme leadership,” the agency said in a commentary, “rabid dogs like [Biden] can hurt lots of people if they are allowed to run about. They must be beaten to death with a stick, before it's too late.”
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"OK Biden"
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Wonder how many of those kids are going to help clean all that shit up prnqwmyu
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I bet they’re having great sex though
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No one is gonna be concerned about the hk youths not making babies or being virgins
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Looks like the PLA is cleaning up. Very cool.
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What would be very cool is if kids felt the responsibility to help clean up that which they destroyed.
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.
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Not sure if anyone watched Prince Andrew on BBC2 yesterday but he was interviewed about Epstein to try and clear the air. This seem to have backfired because if hes not guilty, then im the pope
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He’s guilty AF
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Deval Patrick debuted at 6
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LOL - Obama got OK Boomer’d
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Why should anyone listen to him? hes the 2nd worse president in history after Trump. He also caused Trump
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Some will argue he did some good things and his hands were tied etc etc, but to allow Trump to walk in after you... Thats a terrible job.
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If America don't adopt radicle policies then it will be civil war, anyone with half a brain cell can see that.
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America needs to stop all the lobbying crap. Its need to be run for the people by the people, not big corporations sucking everyone dry. Rant over
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I know UK not much better but America has a greater effect on the rest of the world
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haha, blaming Obama for Trump.. I guess I can see that 1) sell America on change 2) put together an administration that isn't fundamentally different (those backroom deals eh?) 3) be "tied" and don't accomplish too much 4) result people feel like ALL politicians are the same 5) so they vote for the anti-politician
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I did note recently that some big companies have come out lately and have said they want to shift there focus away from just making a profit which can only be a good thing. Forbes, Guardian , NYT have run articles recently that say companies must now focus on more sustainable supply chains and reduce carbon footprint otherwise they will struggle to compete in the near future.
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I'm tired of people hand waving about the incoming civil war. We're so far away from a standard of living that would lead to a civil war it's not even close. People need to simmer down and realize Twitter, Facebook and the 24 hour news cycle are not reality
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Instead of a civil war, it's more likely we have a reality channel that pits antifa and altright in mma style matches
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Yeah civil war isn’t likely especially when guns are no longer the great equalizer
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Govt has all sorts of tech to deal with a few gun wielding rabble
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It's not likely on basic motivation. Not because any side has better tools.
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The government can never have enough tools to overcome a sheer numerical disadvantage
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Hong Kong people could feel ‘most of the pain’ from US human rights act, American experts warn >https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3038430/hong-kong-people-could-feel-most-pain-us-human-rights-act>
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Ummm duh
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The people pushing for it don’t seem to understand how HK works.
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rqhdhphwv I blame Clinton more than Obama, but there was a definitive push towards identity politics under Obama that set the foundation for Trump
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thtdo under Obama? Wasn’t he pretty anti identity politics
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But it did grow before and after he got elected
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Maybe first term
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But if grew second term
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And Clinton went batshit crazy with it
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I like Obama
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It’s not an indictment of him
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So... did trump have a medical event then?
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Because the White House can handle so much in house... there’s not a huge list of minor stuff you’d have to go all the way to Walter reed for
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America had been building tension and bipartisanship fueled by anti intellectualism and racism for many MANY years before Obama. Just because Obama encapsulated the anti-christ for one side, does not mean that the hard swing the opposite direction was a result of him or his policies. I didn’t think people still took the “thanks, Obama” meme to heart 😂
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Ummm what? I think I’ve been very clear about the scope of Obama’s contribution to Trump.
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not really responding to you specifically
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did you really mean bipartisanship?
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also, I don’t think any side has a monopoly on golden calves or anti-christs
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Sorry *partisanship 😅
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And no, neither has a monopoly. Was more of a descriptor for "worst case imaginable"
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Obama is not to blame for that
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but it’s definitely fair to blame the media and Clinton
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Oh definitely the media is a huge part
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The quality of life in the usa is absurd, but I mean netflix has been losing content.
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I dont think civil war will happen literally, more civil unrest (if Trump stays in power). I follow Nick Hanauer who happens to be a billionaire - he does a good podcast "pitchfork economics".
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I am big fan of Bernie Saunders and OAC, these kinda people are the only ones that can save capitalism. You cant have capitalism without capital and there is hell of a lot of people in America that dont have anything. If the middle class is shrinking, and robots are taking jobs which is what is happening, then that is a problem.
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If you see the number of protests that are going on around the world, it usually comes back to two issues, inequality and lack of opportunity. I've made a shit load of money on Amazon FBA in the last few years and i'm starting to realise that for every winner in society, there is a loser, and the losers are a growing base which is not sustainable.
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"In 2014, venture capitalist Nick Hanauer warned his fellow plutocrats that our growing crisis of economic inequality would lead to an uprising or a dictatorship. Two years later, angry voters elected Donald Trump"
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"Any society that allows itself to become radically unequal eventually collapses into an uprising or a police state—or both. Join venture capitalist Nick Hanauer and some of the world’s leading economic and political thinkers in an exploration of who gets what and why. Turns out, everything you learned about economics is wrong. And if we don’t do something about rising inequality, the pitchforks are coming."
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Sorry mowkuaochklgmno economic inequality does not equal "a whole lot of people in America [don't] have anything". People in the US have so much compared to rest of the world it's embarrassing to try to shine any different light on it.

There's things that need to be addressed - there always is. That the current level of access to information has people out of their minds looking for solidarity, any kind of solidarity (read tribalism), is a sad phase. I believe we'll work our way out of it (barring catastrophic economic collapse - not further inequality).
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The US is also a very long way from diving into Authoritarianism. You can't get there without a) changing the Constitution through Congress or b) changing the social fabric via the military
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Sorry, c) mobilizing a large enough militia to overthrow the existing military
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I don't see any of those three happening any time soon
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A) no way you get the votes without super majority of Congress and a placid public
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B) the military is paid by Congress
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C) see standard of living above
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What you can get is a further slide to oligarchy via further ultrawealthy influence of Congress and the presidency. But that's a different hair to split. It's not a dictatorship or Authoritarianism
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I recommend the 📖 Escape from Freedom.
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It's brilliant and challenging to read and worth every minute
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hutpvklxumkndctwi not just enemies to be defeated - but people to be destroyed, personally
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^ this is how almost everyone I know feels. There is a lot of resentment, on both sides, of how the western media has covered this. Even those that put a predominant amount of blame on the government, are incensed at how the west has instigated and inflames the conflict, completely misrepresenting the situation.
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The anti-American sentiment is as strong as the anti-China one right now amongst Hong Kongers. These are real people. Real kids. Real lives. Describing the coverage as that of a “spectator sport” is apropos.
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Self-interested journalists and internet warriors who want to pit this as China vs HKers, but have no substance behind their rhetoric. Know nothing about HK. Know nothing about the legislature. Know nothing about the fight for democracy. The destruction of the city is being fueled by this ignorance.
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This kind of shit is why so much of the world despises the US.
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looks like their paywall is pretty aggressive here’s the text of the article
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I am not justifying what the best outcome is but it should be noted that if it wasn't for Martin Luther pretty much lying and Media misrepresenting the situation the civil rights movement in the USA would of never got buy in. From the misrepresented picture of the attack dog, to Martin Luther staging "protests" when people were getting out of work to make look he had more traction than they actually did, the entire movement was pretty much dependent on media misrepresentation especially at first.
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There is certainly a large conversation about the moral/ethical implications of this but the reality is both movements good and bad don't really get traction without media bias.
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I don’t know that I’d compare those situations, nor is this going to be remotely as effective
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regardless, the point is that the people fomenting the situation have ulterior (and selfish) motives
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Well effectiveness requires an objective to evaluate effectiveness and I am not sure what the objective is.
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If the objective is just anarchy and chaos and destroying the economy, they are seemingly being effective.
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I’m not sure what to say about that post, except it’s complete horse shit
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It's odd that people are acting like HK used to be a city state.
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people being ignorant or having a biased opinion isn’t odd, lol
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the opposite is odd
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terrible
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4 in 5 US workers live paycheck to paycheck. I rest my case
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a country that is"embarrassingly wealthy" that can no longer look after its own is in a shit state of affairs. The empire is falling, just like the UK in the 19th century did. To be fair, most western countries are bankrupt, and private dept will probably bring down the system before public debt. Worth googling US Debt clock
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this has to be analyzed within the context of the greater economy, though, and things like immigration, etc
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the reason Scandinavian countries could have strong social nets is because they were homogeneous, closed loop systems
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the problem with the US and much of the neo-west is it’s the worst of both worlds
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open loop system + distributed welfare
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it’s unsustainable (which most European countries are coming to realize)
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its worth also noting that whilst im on the left of the political spectrum. The right of UK Tory party are also predicting absolute chaos in the future >https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/09/mystic-mogg-jacob-rees-mogg-willam-predicts-brexit-plans>
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its more sustainable than the US, agree both systems will need a reset
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ucywa also helps to nationalize your oil and create a massive wealth fund.
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odivehiefhkggjwnw that’s true for maybe Norway
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China and Russia among other countries are stock piling gold
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yes, they’re hedging
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better than bitcoin 🙂
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jtonoojjswybohw historically, how much of a safety net do you think people in the US enjoyed? How many do you think lived paycheck to paycheck? And how much do you think the evolution of the consumer economy has affected the level of current consumer debt?
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Also, changing your name to "the_anarchist" makes me wonder exactly where you want this to go. Perhaps your name is meant to be ironic. Anarchy is not what you're proposing above.
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Notice please that "poor" people in the US are still overweight.
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That implies to me a severe disconnect with what we're now ascribing to poor and true poverty
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I dont know the actual number of people, I just know its about 70-75% and many are in debt and don't have any savings. Poor people in the US are overweight mainly because they live in poor areas next to dollar stores that don't sell hardly any fruit and veg that is affordable. Cheap Food packed with high fructose corn syrup, fat and and chlorine washed chicken is there only option but they probably don't help themselves either by overeating. I dont know this because I live in the US but just from what I've read in the Washington Post, Guardian and commentary from Max Kieser.
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nothing wrong with being an anarchist, David Graeber describes himself as one and he is a professor at London School of economics.
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(not intended to attack anyone, just a funny commentary)
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I don't think we're having the same conversation
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haxuhoamvuguqfihr are you okay with the wealth inequality and a barely democratic society?
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xhuuqujhx that's a leading question (your honor, I object, leading the witness) :sunglasses:. Here are my general thoughts, fully understanding that this is a better conversational topic than via anonymous text in slack:

I'm very concerned about the effects of the ultrawealthy on the republic. Ironically, the same inaction in Congress that is failing to keep the executive branch in check also impedes outright oligarchical rule (not completely blocks - two ways for the oligarchy to get out of ✋ laws and institutions).

On the other hand, I believe a lot of the gnashing and wailing about the income gap - especially from those who come from middle class and higher families - is due to the challenges of capitalism and, not how it pools wealth but, how it emphasizes individualism and the self. We feel increasingly isolated and at the same time vulnerable to measuring ourselves using what we see as the measuring stick. Read we're suckers for marketing and the entertainment industry. We're also suckers for hearing other people telling us we deserve more (more what?).

I've been poor. Really poor by US standards. My entertainment at age 12 was turning on the lights and using a rat tail to kill the scattering roaches. Public food options poor. That still pales in comparison to the poverty I've seen outside the US. It also pales in comparison to the wealth inequality I've seen outside the US. I've picked watermelons at age 13. That was hard freaking work. As a white male, I was lucky to have options that helped me out of all that. The black people I worked with didn't have those options.

I joined the infantry at age 19. If you want to see people who possibly "deserve more", look at the individuals who are in the infantry not by choice. These are people without a background to cultivate any natural talents and test well on standardized tests. They're in the military because that's the best opportunity for them and their families.

I would like to see stories and information that challenges my world view on this. But, ultimately, I think our best opportunities for change are incremental and within the system. This is not a barely democratic society. Your vote counts. I don't see any evidence that the best way forward is to scrap it and start again. Eventually, we'll get to that point. Nothing lasts forever. But we're not there yet.
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Oh just to be clear I wasn’t talking about scraping the existing system
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unfortunately so far, all “anarcho-capitalists” I have engaged with are very one dimensional. Government is bad in all respects and the source of all our problems. Capitalism is good in all respects and the free market will solve all our problems. No middle ground, no nuance, all about individual right (usually their own), little consideration for a potential collective good.

I will be the first to admit the current system in general is fucked (U.S. being the best example) and there needs to be drastic changes in order to get to a more sustainable place (economically/socially/morally/etc.). Yes, there are a lot of things wrong, no, not every single aspect about it needs to be razed to the ground in order for progress to be made and by sitting around just pointing out flaws in the current system, you are part of the problem.
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/rant 😅
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One thing that annoys me is everyone has a different definition of capitalism
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yep. Both sides make it something it isn’t
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Libertarians and such define capitalism as “the free market” essentially
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But the left define it as corporatism and all the evils
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yea from my experience the left personifies it and demonizes it as if it were a person and has motives and the right only talks about it in theoretical/textbook terms and ignore the reality of the implementation of it
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Lololol
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1.4 billion people can't be wrong about Comrade Trump
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We were told by one local in Chengdu that Chinese people like Trump because he's a celebrity and the richest man in the world.
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I like this story much better.
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