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mrzqvnkezz13d
it waas a small team over 3 months
But yeah, still is
pgjsfnjjpw13d
Never had investors btw. Either mutually beneficial agreements with first clients or personal capital
yfohufptli13d
Oh, I lie. I had one, when I was doing a startup project in 9th grade knowing nothing about how they are done. Was a total flop, but a good experience ๐Ÿ˜…
onydzjmnisxqowxp13d
I have only ever worked with Angels (older/mid-aged dudes with some money).
hwmitoqvgenwlt13d
ahvpaykbaew The partner created a poor perception by making cold calls or telling the clients something negative during the call?
lhjbhtltyshxaoze13d
Cold calling too early can be a problem, like if you are still getting product market fit and then you burn through all your leads.
dabjvozjponnsoxx13d
Cold calling I don't think is a problem, wasting people's time because you are not ready is.
otxbawpexy13d
Partner there was one of the first clients who we basically collaborated with on drawing traffic to the product under their name (that was a precaution on our side, to not really deteriorate the brand perception).

Tl;dr they came up with a really poor and not enticing offer for potential new customers (it's a B2B2C SaaS, cold cals were from B1 to multiple B2s). It came off as stingy, B2 had to pay for retail cases, initial items batch, etc, etc. That created sort of "these guys are jerks" vibe across some parts of the community. This resulted in a situation when on 3rd month people would be very sceptical because B2s that enrolled 1st month were displeased with the initial offer and experience.

(B2's community is very small, about 2000 members of business owners across the country)

We were trying to fight hard to change the terms our B1 offered, but mostly in vain. That was a big learning moment in a complex partnerships when you can easily end up between a rock and a hard place.
twjhpfjhfzdwjb13d
I see, thanks for sharing
xodeqd13d
whazqjojngllajwjg You got a good point that 5k isn't everyone in the world (<@USA56NCKE> my TAM would be pretty big here). And about if I honestly expect that, I really don't know. They say 5k at 45% of $19.99 that's $45000. Ofc they say "5k" to be safe. That's why I figured $20k or $30k. It's probably gonna be more like $10k xD But yeah it's a gamble... I just figure that they have to be confident they'll get a big cut (if they really put a copywriter, and a designer or w/e to work on it (probably made up to justtify the cut)). What I mean is that I don't think they'd take much trouble for less than that. Fuck I think I'm just gonna pass, this is already taking too much of my time. Should be focused. Subscriptions ftw ๐Ÿ˜„
qhgjybhimqrobwfm10d
Uhhhgggggg... my new favorite cancellation message is, "make it work"
algqpuzxtlynltvr10d
because CLEARLY the cancellation prompt is working.
vssqzprk10d
Maybe add โ€œbecause Iโ€™m a trollโ€ to the multiple choice
fysprw9d
the other day I got a 1 star review just because my app on the appstore starts with "e" instead of "E"
jtzwco9d
beat that
drxtax9d
๐Ÿ˜‚
gobrvooh9d
How did scggfmefll initially bootstrap this Slack channel/community? In other words, how did he charge an entrance fee when there was no value in joining at the start? (just curious)
fnnvazdql8d
Yep
pgbghtayl8d
And I started with me and some famous remote/nomad people like kfxvfpkojnrx etc
mnzkgsgcdqadtl8d
You also initially started charging because you had a lot of spammers join, right?
mdeychcfdvctz8d
tfrjmbnhfwhxypy that's the explanation he gives, but I suspect he also (mainly?) just wanted to start making money ASAP. The whole point of his 12-startups thing was to stop wasting time on projects that people weren't willing to pay for.
pmjoaalukpzneeoqms8d
Honestly, the payment filter is good.
wosucgdkyuvmtwydmv8d
I struggle to think of any digital nomad group that isnโ€™t RUINED with people asking โ€˜How do I find six-figure remote jobs with zero skills, initiative, or ambition?โ€™
idvqlxpdirrsejbplk8d
Michael Craig (Dojo) described three waves of digital nomadsโ€ฆ

1. Early internet entrepreneurs with serious cash
2. Developers/marketers who realised they could work anywhere
3. Instagram dipshits who think they can rock-up and start a six-figure life-coaching business.
yaambrsbcfkdpdmrfz8d
We are knee-deep in phase 3,.
ufydfdidjn8d
Closed, moderated, pay-for-entry communities are the future, I concur
actzztdcg8d
good god 100% that ovfnbujboeizlptdcmw
ornydwmtf8d
theyโ€™re fucking everywhere ๐Ÿ˜ž
ifjfgfepw8d
I jokingly say they bring their own bags of sand in their luggage so that if theyโ€™re not near the beach they can still send their hourly instagram photo of #LaptopBeachLife
sugzdexmasmbusjxcy8d
Iโ€™m very much in favour of the free-market. But if you want to ask me how to skip six years in corporate before launching an online business like mine, Iโ€™m going to tell you to fuck off.
txiptxdia8d
Precisely
wtqinwlwvrsjcqyi8d
I feel like when this started there was a lot of self made people who did it and have now left so the ratio of people with income VS those who don't is now much higher.
unsmjhngjrwjubinpp8d
I donโ€™t value corporate. Or social hierarchies. But i have zero patience or respect for people expect a free lunch; or who want me to help them skip the graft I put in to build my business.
kfidkemkp8d
Canโ€™t you just do it for me? For exposure?
kmnzztgjk8d
I donโ€™t want to actually learn, but if you send me an ebook surely I can outsource that to a VA?
oakpyopwkicmxajv8d
The digital nomad reddit is now like 80% backpackers who only care about saving money.
tcmcfbvnvlmnfoebhv8d
โ€˜Why doesnโ€™t UpWork have amazing job opportunities?โ€™

โ€ข Because people with impressive credentials and history get approached directly for awesome jobs, dipshit.
mzqjsmlgztcqbfiffm8d
The logic behind why UpWork and Fiverr are full of shit work was obvious to me from day one.
nlufzzyhukydfhpt8d
Don't bother posting there if you are even moderately successful.
qindpmyldedby8d
I'm a fan of Upwork, I was able to get a start there when no one else would give me a shot (for remote programming), and now I'm getting approached on LinkedIn for remote jobs.
nnfxejgaqsycojez8d
I remember when I started and people would ask me how I did it, so many people got disappointed when I told them it took 6 years of building a company.
rrgxbqwtu8d
Itโ€™s not their fault you took so long.
tkyvipscz8d
Just sprinkle some of that internet magic dust on it
pjobrdlqangdhshw8d
I should just tell them I took out a loan for 100k and just took as many Instagram photos as I could.
nrnzfqqicoiojdpoxi8d
I just signed an Influencer contract with a major technology company, ironically.
fclqufboihajbhxnnm8d
Weโ€™re doing a content marketing project targeting aspirational digital nomads.
scehybtkdamkyrifle8d
I can - at least - set the record straight on the kind of skills required.
ufwdiz8d
well, this last bit of conversation makes me feel less dumb. Been working on my sideproject for 3 years until I could quit my freelancing last year to fully work on it and now I am finally seeing the light (and finally sort of able) to start working from anywhere for long periods
dczxcn8d
everyone else seems so smart! with their blogs full of affiliate stuff >.<
wwjisz8d
I once went to a digital nomads meetup and I felt so ridiculously dumb, everyone was having the "great life" by seeling some shady shit on amazon or the likes ๐Ÿ˜…
dulrlmovyyeebtyq8d
haha
lctjfan7d
upwork is going the enterprise route guys and ofcourse there's a Lot of shit, but then there's a lot of Fortune 500 hiring therein too - having worked with 35+ clients and now with upwork itself, they have to correct a lot of stuff, but the Top 1-10% easily go above in 6-7 figures income
hrdebhw7d
I wouldn't dismiss it if you were not able to make the most of it, personal biases don't help anyone
lalaodv7d
it's not freelancer or fiverr
wcgtsgil7d
Iโ€™ve been on Upwork for almost 3 years and I love it ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
jkmrdiym7d
Yeah I don't think it's fair to group Upwork in with Fiverr and the ilk
oxxtcoiey7d
As an employer, Iโ€™ve never had good experiences with upwork.. itโ€™s like all the others in my view.. despite offering full rates, I end up getting crap people who donโ€™t even really try.
sqfjdydkb7d
Iโ€™ve warned a fair few business folks in my circle off hiring there just because itโ€™s so damn painful and filled with garbage
aurbnfnhmylyfdlf7d
I have some Ukrainians I hired off it that are excellent but I had a ton of filtering questions.
rfxdqregdkiwxuyi7d
The best was people not answering questions by saying "I don't want to work for free"
cxhjxfdzxcxquqte7d
Which is telling me that you don't know the answer, lol
kqjlznoufb7d
When I was sourcing devs for a couple of jobs I had to ask to start the proposal with a list of dev stacks required from the candidate. 6\50 managed to do it. 12%
vozlapcqui7d
But that was pre-paid connects time
mzomziuvcteclpww7d
Ya you have to ask filtering questions. I think you run into problems when you have non technical hiring managers because they can't detect bs
juxjwpg7d
ldxxkuiuqk how strict were your filtering questions, checks for old testimonials, live video quick interviews before hiring etc?
wtumgfv7d
If I follow these three in a span of 15-30 minutes, it helps in removing crap in general
xffrlynqm7d
nmmgpwoq I had at least one person where the interviewee was not the person I got. Which is pretty disappointing. But more generally, I felt I asked decent filtering questions. And who the heck hires a full time position without interviewing them before hiring? Thatโ€™s unthinkable for me
mfwifqaxayad7d
My experience was more like โ€œ seems like there is another candidate with lower rates who is spoiling the clientsโ€joy
dgrnjlz6d
there always will be mate, you have to decide to not play the low price game, simple ๐Ÿ™‚
mjqmwhf6d
Hmm yeah well looks like crap has been increasing, you can always reach out to upwork and FL and make it clear it was crap - so future clients aren't affected, you are a part of the platform and that's how it gets crowd sourced well too
unokhcabnfej6d
I joined Toptal, clients look decent. Rates are
Good. Lost my faith in Upwork :(
gamigjzmvcij6d
Iโ€™ve also had success with hiring Ukrainians on Upwork
crwgarv6d
did you guys collect email addresses from them? I hate Upwork and would prefer to hire directly
jniijye6d
Btw, the hidden economy of upwork is when clients invite you and not when you bid for jobs - so of course eat frogs first and then grow
But toptal is awesome, good luck!
exszyjxuqeoy6d
I usually hire them initially through Upwork and then transition over to a direct relationship, once the initial engagement is complete.
dwgxtvmwrbdh6d
Hmm, yeah. I was not really motivated to try Upwork deeper as a freelancer. I use it a lot as a customer though. As a freelancer I was invited and people basically asking for free work. I was trying to help hoping they would take the bait if good will and hire me for some paid hours but they never came back ๐Ÿ˜‚
khvjfmc6d
Hey, I was wondering where you all set your businesses โ€˜locationโ€™/address on Google maps? I am a fully nomadic coach and my clients are from all around the world. My business is registered in Finland but Iโ€™m not really ever there so that seems to make little sense.. ๐Ÿค”
oecpoebdtntb6d
xgmyaxtt I don't have a google maps entry, since I'm not connected to an actual area
dwbrlpsuhfmpbm6d
Iโ€™m guessing your physical location isnโ€™t that important to your clients either? Why bother with business location in the first place? ps. nice to see a fellow Finn here, I think there are all 3 of us
zexynjnqcejhxo6d
But my SG company needs a physical address to operate so I just use my virtual office location
qruxmttdkjtaev6d
esvbvvkb also if I may ask why are you still incorporated in finland if youโ€™re not in the country a whole lot? there are quite a few easier and more tax efficient countries out thereโ€ฆ ๐Ÿ™‚
vttbrgk6d
Good to know UJT9E93EYbr />
Haha thatโ€™s a good questionย <@U03FHDBMD> ๐Ÿ˜‚ I know I have to go back for a few months 2020-2021 so figured Iโ€™ll start there and then explore other options after I leave โ€˜permanentlyโ€™. But yeah, Finland is definitely not the best country to set up a business for sure hahaโ€ฆ.
nvjmpll6d
And no I donโ€™t think the physical location is very important to my clients. I am mostly considering Google maps from a โ€˜credibilityโ€™ / reviews point of view to be honest.
rtsxxblaqqshhg6d
yeah, I used to own a consulting business incorporated in finland, now that Iโ€™m in singapore my corp+personal taxes combined are about 60% lower
nxjorpl6d
Yeah, Iโ€™m going to look into that at some point definitely. Currently still building the foundation for my consulting/coaching business so I am merely trying to make sure I pay taxes somewhere where I have people who can receive mail for me ๐Ÿ˜‚
vdajmokyqqkcrp6d
ah, ok. But if you arenโ€™t going to be in finland for more than 6mo in 2020-2021 Iโ€™d suggest youโ€™d start looking into limited tax liability things (rajoitettu verovelvollisuus) now as itโ€™s the most problematic part in optimising your nomadic setup
wyehdgazidmipa6d
and most time consuming by far
aucxjrb6d
Thatโ€™s a good tip, I definitely will ๐Ÿ‘ I was also a sole trader in the UK last year so had to dip my toe in that pool a bit but still trying to unravel that mess with the two tax authorities.. ๐Ÿ˜‚
yyrgbhfpmgnrxy6d
yeah, either you need to be out of finland for current years + 3 years after that or setup a personal tax residency somewhere else, if you have questions when you start looking into it in more detail feel free to PM me, Iโ€™ve helped a couple of people in similar situations after doing it myself
ywvexlu6d
Cool thanks I will! ๐Ÿ™‚
zoaoiyytq6d
My business is registered to the last place I was actually living, which is in the heart of San Francisco, making it great for picking up clients in SF. They send you a postcard with a code to your registered address in order to verify that you are there. You could theoretically set it to any place where you could get that postcard or a friend could get it and read you the code. Hope that helps.
kfwzyej6d
Thanks! jvtmhejreb that really helps ๐Ÿ™‚ So I need to figure out whether to get that or not I suppose and where it would make sense if it does ๐Ÿ™‚
qwabaqbxa6d
note GMB now has a list of all PMBs in the US and will refuse to send to it
omyyvcnqx6d
which means no UPS store mailboxes, PO boxes, etc
lokwdmjvh6d
(we used to use this trick to have extra locations in GMB when we serviced a wide area)
hgtmyee6d
Good to know, thanks ofughnprfc ๐Ÿ™‚
ypofqkyhdufk6d
+1skin-tone-2
cjctptpyrm4d
vilojjrpibizbnbdd are we moving to Singapore? ๐Ÿ˜‚
tkbkyiesocdcwl4d
I donโ€™t reside in SG but incorporated there. You need to figure out a good combo for peronal and corporate tax which usually means they are in 2 different countries. The personal tax residency is the trickier part
vhigdjxcqm3d
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