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hidden for non-members3mo
Hey, all. I'm curious if anyone got any info on FEIE + staying in Spain on a Non-lucrative visa? Do they work together? Seems like they should, as I'm a resident there.
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FEIE is very simple
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it would work
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Sure. But keep in mind that to qualify for feie with residency you have to be a resident as of the first of the year.
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But you still have physical presence.
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Ah, one of the keys would be "paying taxes in Spain"...
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makes sense, thank you
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Sadly that means I will have to pay huge Spanish taxes ๐Ÿ˜„
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no. FEIE has nothing to do with paying taxes somewhere else. it only depends on your location and how long you're there.
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but yes, if you establish residency somewhere, you'll have to pay taxes there.
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but those are two completely different things.
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FEIE language was saying that "you were not a tax-nonresident of that country". But in Spain you would be, so it's fine.
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without context, i can't comment
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but 100% you are not required to be a tax resident anywhere
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no, just physical presence is sufficient
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if you want a more in depth explanation you need to link to where you got that or post the whole text.
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But it can be any other country, in theory. The other issue thought, that Spain won't be ok with non-lucrative visa and sub 183 days.
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spains requirements have 0 to do with the FEIE
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do you think that you don't qualify for FEIE based on that link?
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#2 in that flow is wrong based on their own documents.
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well, not wrong, but SUPER misleading
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because you don't have to have a tax home in a specific country as long as it's NOT in the US
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your tax home can change daily
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> because you don't have to have a tax home in a specific country as long as it's NOT in the US

yeah, that's common sense to me
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but there are two ways to qualify. not just residence.
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you don't need residency somewhere to get the FEIE
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I'm familiar with both, yes. I was just misled by the "paying taxes somewhere" question
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which isn't a requirement.
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Do you think for bona-fide residency test that is not a requirement?
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it's not a requirement for FEIE
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it's an option for claiming FEIE
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it might be for qualifing for FEIE using that method. it is NOT required for FEIE in general
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Ok, then yeah, it might stop being an option for qualifying then. makes sense
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if you don't want to pay taxes, don't establish residency. easy as
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I was under impression non-lucrative visa conditions are similar to Portugal's 10yr break
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which they are not ๐Ÿ˜ž
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i know 0 about the visa conditions. but i do know then have nothing to do with FEIE.
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Yeah, makes sense. Different even stream.
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the only non-US residency thing that matters here is that if you can show you are a legal resident of a non-US country for a full tax year, you will be 'grandfathered' into the FEIE and can then spend as many days in the states as you want and still get the FEIE. shysylhpe can probably explain the whole thing much better than I can
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Well, legal resident and tax resident sound different to me. I could legally reside in some countries for a year, but not be a tax resident, as I wouldn't reside there. Or vise versa too.
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most places if you live there 180 days you're technically a tax residenmt
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whether or not you abide by that law is another thing
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180 days a year, rather
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Yeah, tax residence matter completely makes sense to me.
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true, and i think I should let the expert weigh in before I mislead you, but i will say that I go by either "residency". once a resident, you are generally obligated to pay taxes in a country and therefore should qualify
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> I mislead you, but i will say that I go by either "residency". once a resident, you are generally obligated to pay taxes in a country and therefore should qualify

Unless you live outside for more then 183 days
hidden for non-members3mo
But in those cases many times they no longer consider you a resident.
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right exactly
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You guys are pretty on the money here, although I always stress looking at individual situations rather than generalizing. Every country is different in their visas, residency, and taxation, but for the US, the FEIE is qualified for in one of two ways Phyical presence (being out of the US for 330/365 consecutive days) or bona fide resident, which does require a full _calendar_ year as a resident of another country. We've used both before with clients (i.e., moved in August, was a resident for next three years, use PPT for 4 months of y1 and then BFR for y2-3, etc). qsvionfvhvwcg is correct in the the BFR removes the restiction on number of days you can visit the US
hidden for non-members3mo
It's pretty rare that you can have your cake and eat it to by having residency without being required to live or pay taxes there.
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The setups in places like Puerto Rico and Estonia seem to be becoming popular, though this dog is too old to learn those new tricks. Just whispers I hear in the community. I'm sure someone is here is more familiar than I am
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Estonia is e residency. Not physical residency. Not sure about PR but believe it requires living there.
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yeah, e residency is just a way to open estonian company that's about it
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too. jeez
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But as someone who sees no reason to get residency if you want to be a nomad, i'll definitely admit i don't know a ton on the subject.
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Puerto Rico sounds like the ideal tax evasion destination ๐Ÿ˜‚ kdqmsoswz might have more to share, he used to live there. I have Estonian E-residency, but I really only used it for a bank account I didn't need. No other benefits imo ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
hidden for non-members3mo
Yeah. Estonia doesn't do much with the e-residency. Besides ability to open a company and operate remotely.
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Do you use is for your business?
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Also Estonia has an interesting tax treaty.
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You can get a PR through business though.
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But I'm yet to verify it with an actual tax pro
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No, not for business, sorry
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PR is the only true legal tax haven in the world for US citizens who make a lot of money on capital gains or service-based income.
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sadly they make you actually live there ๐Ÿ˜‰
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But you have to make a lot of money for it to be worth living there 6 months a year.
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not that PR isn't a nice place, but i like movement haha
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Like, at least $1M+ per year. I'd venture more than that from having lived there for 2 years.
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I have a few friends who have transitioned to PR. It's really the only way I would feel comfortable legally avoiding US taxes
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However they do stay there for over 6 months, which would be inconvenient for me.
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It's really not worth it
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Unless you love money
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Ultimately you can't avoid taxes legally anywhere as a US citizen
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ooiwtnvopiwk do you include using the FEIE?
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sure you can
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you can qualify for the FEIE.
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once you get over a certain level of income it becomes more complicated but there are 100% legal ways to mitigate taxes other than living in PR.
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US is one of the few countries that taxes its citizens on all worldwide income, but the FEIE and FTC are in place to help with that
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It's a gray area I wouldn't be comfortable with, since technically it requires that you have tax residency elsewhere.
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no, it does not
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it 100% does NOT require you to have tax residency elsewhere
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It requires a tax home somewhere else
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Whether or not you're taxed in that tax home is another issue entirely
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but tax home and tax residency are not the same thing.
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Mitigating taxes is one thing, but avoiding them entirely is not legally possible
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and your tax home changes with you when you move around.
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it is 100% legally possible if you're under the FEIE limit.
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jtmjvedynzqtjq depends on your situation, but that's the idea
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if you're over the limit then how you set things up matters.
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So you have to set up tax residency in somewhere like Dubai or Singapore?
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you don't have to set up tax residency anywhere.
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tax residency is NOT required.
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That conflicts with what I've been told from a few other sources
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i think you're confusing tax home and tax residency.
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one is required, the other is not. they are not the same thing.
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Would one pay taxes _some_where?
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nope
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or only if you establish tax residency somewhere.
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which, again, is not required
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From reading the FEIE documents, it looks like you have to be under the jurisdiction of an area with a tax treaty with the US
hidden for non-members3mo
As digital nomads, we're kinda expoliting a loophole ATM. The FEIE and FTC were set up for traditional expats, who set up "residency" in other countries. We travel on tourist visa and are usually not subject to taxes in the places we go, but still qualify (in most cases) under the rules as they are written
hidden for non-members3mo
no. i'd suggest setting up an appt with someone who specializes in this and discussing it because based on what you're writing i think you're working under some misinformation or misinterpretation.
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It's a loophole that I wouldn't be comfortable skirting, because it seems like it's ripe for an audit
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Hi. I specialize. Happy to chat it out if you want to shoot me a DM
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Its actually not
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You don't have to credit the taxes paid in a foreign country against your federal taxes?
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I think FEIE is so simple it challenges people's expectations of the US tax code
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Yes, and there is a Foreign Tax Credit provision for that
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You still have to pay Medicare/SS correct?
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Yes, the only way out of this is to contribute to another country's social welfare system
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Which would mean you'd also have to pay income tax there?
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Yes. That's more for cases of true expats. Move to Japan, work there, get taxed there, pay social welfare there
hidden for non-members3mo
Short answer is yes, you will still pay SS/MC
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At the end of the day, it comes down to your comfort with the understanding of the tax code as it is written and how that applies to you, but as digital nomads, more often than not we quallify under the provisions as they are written, so it would be foolish not to at least speak to someone about your facts and circumstances
hidden for non-members3mo
If you make less than $200k, FEIE is fantastic. If you make more than $1M, PR is fantastic.
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I'm generalizing of course.
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If you make more than $1M, everywhere except Monte Carlo is fantastic
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Maybe pushing it in midtown Manhattan or the upper west side too
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PR is the only place in the world you can legally have 0 tax on your capital gains income as a US citizen.
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It's pretty sick.
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I was being flippant
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But . . . 6 months a hear.
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Haha
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You have to love money
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Yeah PR seems like the perfect retirement destination, otherwise your capital gains taxes will eat you alive retiring overseas.
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FEIE doesn't cover capital gains correct?
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FEIE only covers _earned income_ so no
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We have a few clients who do the whole PR thing, you gotta actually be there for a big portion of the year, no thanks.
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well, now i know where to live if i make $1mm. now to find a job that pays me that
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Not a job . . .
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Only capital gains or dividends
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Haha
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Not salary
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I'm going to PR in few years, to convert all my tax event accounts. 4% flat income tax, but you have to give up voting rights.
hidden for non-members3mo
and here i am planning to limit my retirement income so i am below the level where i have to pay cap gains and divi taxes. ๐Ÿ˜‚ would rather have the $1MM problem. ๐Ÿ˜„
hidden for non-members3mo
Any of the US-based nomads here know a good tax consultant? Noobie nomad, just landed in Thailand after convincing my US-based firm to let me work remotely. Currently still W2 but I can switch to contractor if greater tax savings. Planning on using FEIE but want to discuss all options (register LLC/tax write-offs relative to FICA charges). Happy to pay for this consultation, just weary of going with someone random online.
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PM'd
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iqqghe post your tax guy
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I have his info somewhere too but it's just easier to ping you ๐Ÿ˜‚
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I already messaged it!
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aailvw would you mind sending to me as well please?
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xgrpem me three
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I also do tax advisory for digital nomads if anyone is looking/wants a second opinion :nerd_face:
#shamelessselfplug
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qwcynxdue FYI, that kind of stuff gets you in trouble around here. don't be shocked if your posts is nuked and you get a naughty message.
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not that kind of naughty, though
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with a nick like that it's more difficult though ๐Ÿ˜„
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Thanks for letting me know! Def don't want to get in trouble, was just putting it out there as a response to ehoqpahcokmiv post
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Makes sense. But what's would be any other point of getting PR in Europe besides FEIE.. idk
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Since PR in this case is Puerto Rico, you can't get PR in Europe...
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lol. in this thread I was reading PR as Permanent Residence
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Yeah I was responding to a post about Puerto Rico. :)
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I will change my name to my company's url
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If it makes any difference, she's a great accountant... ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
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๐Ÿ˜†
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Thanks xcqlkqplkbsjbn />
To be fair, my Slack handle in all my other Slacks is also octvis but that wasn't available to me here
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We should just have a pinned list of recommend accountants. It seems silly that new people have to keep pinging CookieMonster and others for this list
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Agreed
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Looking for some advice on configuring Gusto for FEIE
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Do I add a special tax exemption for FUTA, set my status to exempt from withholding, or just set my allowances really high
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Also, are you all using the foreign housing exclusion? It looks like that could significantly reduce my tax liability, but I'm reading that it is only available to self-employed taxpayers. `The housing deduction applies only to amounts paid for with self-employment earnings.`
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Many of us are taking FEIE, yes, and I leave my accountant to sort it all out
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I don't know anyone who qualifies for the housing deduction
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I technically do, but I have never used it.
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But I'm not really a digital nomad . . .
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I'm very, very slomad
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mzrrvijeocq on a w-4 form, there's a section (7) for those of us who expect to be exempt from federal taxes. Not sure how this translates into Gusto setup, but maybe they have something similar?
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I got it working! I made a special tax exemption for FUTA & Texas Unemployment, then marked Federal Tax as "Do not withhold"
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What mail services or address are y'all using when taking FEIE?
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What mail service are y'all using when taking FEIE?
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What mail service is recommended for FEIE?
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Pretty much anything that isn't located in California.
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why would a specific mail service make a difference for FEIE?
hidden for non-members3mo
afaik, states with income tax vs states without. and maybe states with the highest income tax?
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my point was more that getting a virtual mailbox in a state doesn't legally make you a tax resident of that state, but on top of that most services charge to have a non-PO box address and when you do that you (at least with mine) can pick from a list of states/cities
hidden for non-members3mo
but yeah i think if you pick a mailbox in california you will end up having a bad time ๐Ÿ˜‚
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bvsxtynq someone in this group had a virtual mailbox in CA and never lived there and CA when after them for taxes. it took a lot of money and a couple years to get it straightened out. why take the risk if you can just pick another state.
hidden for non-members3mo
which do you use
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true, but v. good to point out that mailing address != where you get taxed necessarily, its way more complex than that
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probably best not to ever even speak the word "California" aloud tbh
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If you lived in CA, you will need to officially establish residency in your target state. The franchise tax board is efficient in chasing taxes
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Just a mailbox won't do it, they know that trick
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I used escapees because they gave me a legal physical address in Florida that works for residency and banking.
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octjntzdnb do you know if it's officially a "residential" address?
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It's an address in an RV park
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heh
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you basically get an RV park lease.
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neat
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I flew down to Florida, got a Florida DL in a day.
hidden for non-members3mo
they also can do it in texas, which is somewhat easier with their mail service, but I wanted a florida DL and voter reg.
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Sent email to HR at work, said I moved to Florida, and the next paycheck had no state taxes taken out.
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that's awesome
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I should suggest that to my mailbox service... That they technically make the postbox also a physical lease of some legal sorts
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zhribmniho Be cautious about being lulled into the idea that you're a Florida resident in the view of your original state (they probably get to decide). Driver's license/voter registration obtained in one day may be insufficient to establish residency per your old state (if they feel a fondness for your tax money). If you're not filing tax returns in your old state they can audit you for a LONG time in the future.
hidden for non-members3mo
Yes. I'm from Arizona, don't think they are that bad. And I have solid proof I don't live there. Sold my house there, don't work for a company there
hidden for non-members3mo
I have no idea about Arizona but, for many states, not living there is insufficient. Living elsewhere is also an element.
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Abandonment plus establishment.
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Many states require that you demonstrate residency, i.e. bank statements, insurance statements, utility bills with the "new" residency address before they will agree that you are no longer subject to their state tax levies.
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Won't they question your salary then? Especially if it's a remote-friendly corp, they know what's up
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I'm talking in regards to market salary, etc
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There's are an interesting news story I was reading about new mexico going after some RVers for back taxes. It goes point by point demonstrating how all of their "we moved to Nevada!11" excuses were obvious BS.
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New Mexico is one of the worst states for this (i'm just paying NM state tax anyway rather than deal with it)
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bottom line is states do not fuck around and you should contact a lawyer or accountant to make sure you're actually on the level
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the real filing goes into pretty extreme detail
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if you do literally anything related to the state you're trying to leave they _will_ use it against you
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Does anyone have any experience dealing with GILTI, Subpart F and countries with deferred taxation system?
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I agree with the comments here about establishing new domicile and states chasing you for taxes. In my personal case, I sold my Arizona primary residence, car, and left the state/country without any remaining ties there except a rental property which has been rented to a tenant for the last 5 years. I think they would have a hard time making any kind of case that I'm still tied to that state. The New Mexico case in the article seems quite a bit different, as they really were in New Mexico a lot, to the point I would probably side with New Mexico on that one. I have no plans to return to Arizona at all. I'll still be filing a tax return in 2020 as a part year resident, because I was in AZ until April, then we left on the nomad adventure.
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reminder that estimated taxes are due on the 15th yall ๐Ÿ’ต
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Actually it's the 16th this year, but yes
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saw you typing and was like "shit i'm about to be corrected"
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hahah
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Lol

Also, S Corp and Partnership extension are due!!
hidden for non-members2mo
hm, website still says the 15th though? www.irs.gov/faqs/estimated-tax/individuals/individuals-2
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i paid mine already but curious do they really enforce those dates?
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like if you paid a week late does anything happen?
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It depends on the level of tax liaiblity... the more you owe, the more they care... but usually as long as you are paid in 90% by 1/15, they don't bother you too much
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ah, makes sense
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From the 2019 1040ES instructions
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The IRS won't make any deadline on a non-business day. I remember a few years ago the filing deadline was onthe 17th or the 18th bc the 15h fell on a weekend and the follow Monday was a tax holiday. Was not a happy camper that year
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Are you not signed up for Mark's reminders wzmxtgrl
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hm, i guess not
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i just make calendar events at the beginning of every year though
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oh, i need to turn off my auto pay. good reminder
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ah shit, my 2018 extension is coming up
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thanks for the indirect reminder qvdydkcu
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S Corps and partnerships (iwth 12/31 year ends). Personals are due 10/15
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Hello all.
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Moving into this room.
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haha that gif was great, did it get bot deleted?
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Was wondering if anyone had experience setting up an LLC or SCorp for an ecommerce store. I'm Californian but ideally would like to reduce my tax burden by getting the struture set up.
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The bot is the devil. deletes everything.
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Yes.. I am heatbroken.... apparently I'm too new to post gifs
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We do LLC and S Corp setups :)

CA is the devil though when it comes to taxes
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Yeah, I wonder if I should just change my residency to a different state that's a swing state. So my vote can matter more as well.
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But anyways any advice is recommended. :)
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CA is a hard state to break residency from, but if you can swing it, esp to a no income tax state or a state that recognizes the FEIE, I always recommend it.

Also, if you're nomadic and your business isn't primarily conducted in CA, you can look into setting up the biz in another stateusing a registered agent
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Yeah, I'm currently in Mexico City
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fyeuprsldnvvlj why not anything in California?
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Read the discussion after this post.
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fhxlbwwdhfvxlt never mind my last question. I just saw this one. I'm not surprised. I've had a virtual mailbox in Cali since 2015. Sold a property in Wisconsin in 2017 and a few weeks ago I got a letter from Cali asking where the tax return was. I called and got it wrapped up in less than 10 minutes. In my case it was easy for them to look up the property records. For income taxes, yeah, I can imagine. Not so easy. I use a different address for the IRS.
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wfwkwvkylw can you use that address to open a credit card? I looked at their site a few months ago and that was one thing I couldn't really figure out.
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Will living in Puerto Rico exclude meeting the requirements for US FEIE? I'm reading different things.
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Will living in Puerto Rico qualify for the FEIE or exclude someone from meeting the FEIE requirements? I'm reading different things and need clarification.
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FEIE (by the physical presence test) requires you to be in a foreign country
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puerto rico is not a foreign country as it is part of the US
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not sure why there would be conflicting reports on that
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Thanks! Maybe outdated blogs
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to clarify though, the law is pretty simple but many people forget that it's "330 days in a foreign country" which means cruises, US territories, etc all do not count
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The 35 days seems so difficult to do right now
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"don't go home often and you get paid $15k more" <- makes it feel really easy to me
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wvuboegdrnzvcc What about setting up a company in Mexico City and hiring yourself for a 2yr+ contract to apply for Safe Harbor? Maybe vrdocktvm have done this before?
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Just opened a chase sapphire reserve card using that address, actually gave them the texas address which is the mailing address.
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exactly. i have 0 problems being out of the US that long. lol
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I have 3 states to visit friends/family so takes up quite a bit of time to get around. That's great you all don't see to find it difficult, but it's different for everyone :)
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Maybe I haven't been nomadding long enough (about 3 years), but I have almost zero desire to go home other than to see my niece and nephew and play with my brothers dog. My feelings about the US as a great place to live have dropped precipitously since I started traveling
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my new plan is to pay to fly someone to visit me every year to cut down on one trip home
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this year was paying for my mom/sister to go to spain becuase two round trips from chicago + a week long airbnb in barcelona for all of us was way cheaper than breaking FEIE
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Has anyone here used www.taxesforexpats.com/? I'm getting ready to move abroad in a few weeks and trying to find someone to help me plan tax strategy
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Has anybody used TaxesForExpats to plan / file taxes? I'm planning to start my nomad journey in a few weeks and looking for someone to help plan and advise on strategy
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lzxnblbnsnbaaufglgpyyxy a lot of us are fans of www.wayfareaccounting.com/ You can peep in USA channel and we just had a convo about it
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Thanks tqkmcjhossvzei I just read through your convo. I'll try to set up a call with Mark
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I literally just got off a call with him as well. Tell him i sent you !! โค๏ธ jejej.
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Haha for sure! How was your chat?
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true. my family is spread out over 3 states with friends in 3 others. the joys of having lived in 9 states and DC. :) I just see who it makes sense to see when I'm back.
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Was good. Figuring out all of my life logistics all at once. jajaj
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xtimafis That's a solid plan. I never considered it
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fplkjrux that's another good way to do things too! I am hoping I can recruit most to come visit me and maybe sweetening the pot with help to off-set the cost will help.
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xptfqnkwxt the Littles are the hardest part for me too. We have four under 5 and that's always the most fun time with them. :)
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my brokest friend seemed offended when i offered, which was a bummer.. but my mom/sister were stoked about it and it was great getting to hang out with them in a different country
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wsacqxtcezlspz thanks for this resource. Coincidentally I scheduled a call with another firm yesterday. Will keep this one in my back pocket.
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Well brokest friend really missed out!
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ogwsxxtmpu so it does work!!!! That's definitely a plus! The virtual mailbox that I have in Cali is recognized as a retail location (I can't remember the acronym for it) and so they won't approve an application with the address.
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yep, they mailed the credit card to the my texas address, that fowarded on to my brothers house. He opened it up, gave me the numbers off it and I added it to Apple pay and charged stuff at the grocery store in Bulgaria today :)
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To my understanding, if the "bank" has a branch in US then no reporting is required. Not to mention, transferwise is technically not a bank
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I'm curious if there are any typical patterns for W2 workers living in Europe
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Such as?
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what do you mean by typical patterns?
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Such as "Get paid as W2, expense some to an offshore company"
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:) you are on a watch here, as usual.
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:)
Hello
#creeper
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lol
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waves back to the fellow creeper. ๐Ÿ˜‰
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is *shy* for a sec, but back to topic
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so I would be trying to get a 1099 alternative to W2, and expense it to my EU corporation. This way personal tax would be minimal in any country. But what if it's W2....
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To answer your q, not that I've seen, but most of my clients aren't getting that detailed
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i think that if you are a w2 there would likely be few options.
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As a W2, you do get to avoid SE tax and if you qualify, exlcude the first ~$106k from federal taxes
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Right, but if I live in Spain, I would still pay personal income tax
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Are you talking about being a resident of another country?
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Yes.
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Ah, yeah... my knowledge is exhausted.
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And If I get 1099 work, it seems to work well with subcontracting a corporation
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But I guess, W2 question is this can you expense all or any of your W2 wage?
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And then, should I even worry about my W2, as it won't be shared anyway with any of the EU countries... ๐Ÿ˜‚ kidding yeah
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nkmeqpsvvvs I'm sure the taxing authority in Spain has publications to explain what's deductible in their system. With respect to your US deductions see - www.irs.gov/publications/p529
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Countries share info ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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It was more of a kidding, but from FATCA prospective, it only works one way, from EU to US, but not the other way
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Yeah, basically says that on W2 there is no general thing like expenses in a self-employed option...
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Hoping one of the experts here can help, or point me to the right person. I work for a Boston startup, but I am not on a W2, they have me as a partner, so the pay is on a K-1. The CPA I talked to said there might be a problem with the FEIE since the income is earned in the USA in the LLC, and then divided between partners, and it doesn't matter I am out of the country.

Anyone else deal with the FEIE, and having K-1 income in the USA?
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At least for my situation (s-corp) K-1 income does not count as earned income for FEIE
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so it's not that it's the fact that the LLC is in the US that's the problem
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for me it's that K1 is for profits from business and not "earned income" from wages / work subject to payroll taxes.
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(I would love to be wrong and be able to file amended returns from the last few years and get a bunch of money back though)
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this is my understanding as well
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If I can get them to pay me as a W2 employee, that should resolve this?
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pppfrzqtcmtytfyss unfortunately your CPA s right, it is only for earned income
But lowpjslaih situation is diff, bc his is earned
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cool, since his isn't an s-corp?
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He's an active partner in his business
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Making the income earned
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lxskvp being a W2 will muddy the waters less on where the income is "earned"
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Would it apply for me since I'm a 1 person s-corp and by definition am quite active? Or since I elected to do it as an s-corp I'm fucked (I don't have an accountant in the US, my stupid ass did it all on my own lol)
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I have a japanese accountant for my japanese taxes, just not one for my American taxes. probably should though, taxes are a pain
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nasdftxgeavkpjxxh if you are a sole member and actively participating, it is eligible for FEIE
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I was hired as an employee, but paid on a K1.
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A share of profits?
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From IRS:
The source of your earned income is the place where you perform the services for which you received the income. Foreign earned income is income you receive for performing personal services in a foreign country. Where or how you are paid has no effect on the source of the income.
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fkvluqznw paid an agreed salary, and also was given some stock shares, it just isn't W2, and they don't withhold any taxes or social security.
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If the work was performed abroad, it should qualify for FEIE
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Laconia.
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vcrpsqbfp If I'm a freelance writer working for US clients, but sitting in Europe (Nov-Dec), do I have to do anything different to pay my 2019 US taxes? Should I use FEIE?
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thanks!
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if you qualify for feie (you just mentioned being out of the US for two months so not sure if you do) you probably benefit by claiming, but if you're trying to figure out the nuance of if it benefits your personal financial situation you're probably gonna need to pay someone to get that level of advice
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I'd you're only out 2 months you don't qualify so nothing is different. If you plan to stay out, you can prorate those two months but you'd have to file an amended return once you reach your 330 days out.
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hmpckuergodacc />@U03NCNN43 and rfplmgghuhamji are both right. That little time outside the US doesn't qualify you for FEIE.
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Ok, thanks.
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okay something just occurred to me i know a bunch of people in my industry who live in puerto rico for tax reassons, but if i go visit them there does that count towards my time in the US for FEIE reasons?
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AFAIK, no. Puerto Rico counts as USA days. Someone correct me though
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puerto rico is part of the US, so does not count
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err, does not count as time out of it*
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Can confirm
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so, doesnt count? sounds like a good deal
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not even a real state..
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But I believe you have no tax liability while you're there I believe. That's why the live there
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Puerto Rico is one of the only legal ways an American can avoid federal income tax.
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But you have to spend 6 months a year there
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They have beachesโ€ฆ
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that 6 months a year gets you a complete zero tax bill though, right?
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surely worth it for many who have income that can't fit under FEIE (due to not being "earned income" or making well over the cap)
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well now there's another legal way to avoid American taxes ๐Ÿ˜€ (at least for 3months)
www.coworkaholic.com/serbia-tax-incentive-for-digital-nomads/
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nothing in that article implies it would be though
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just because serbia doesn't tax you doesn't mean you don't owe the US money
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especially since we don't have residency based taxes like everyone else lol
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actually, we DO have residency-based taxes, they are just very specific
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one issue detractors have had is that it's not technically legal (based on the letter of the law vs spirit of the law) to work in another country and not pay taxes there. this is a fantastic step towards getting the letter and spirit to align in countries outside the US that we can use to get to that 330 days
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sure if you make over US$105k you still owe the US, but, under that mark, this helps a ton
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of course the other route is to just stay put in a place long enough to get residency and then you don't have to worry about the 330 days limit
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right, this is more about getting the other side of our coin shinier
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given that it's not legal for any of us to work in basically any of the countries we're bouncing around from i don't think any of us are worried about that side of the coin ๐Ÿ˜‚
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trust me, many are. i've had plenty of discussions with other DNs about how they really want to find a place where the law very specifically allows for working there temporarily without business visa/tax implications. Personally, I'm with you, i don't worry too much, but I love that there are countries out there who are starting to think about how they can make it truly legal for us
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if that's true we hang with very different nomads haha
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unless you mean people wanting to be able to live 6+ months in places
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which yeah that's definitely true
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even on this slack I've had that discussion
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i'd take tax hits on that even, if i could easily stay x country for a year
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heck, that's a basis for the PR talk
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i thought the basis was to get out of US taxes
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it is, and they specifically want to do it fully legally i believe
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either way, it's good news for DNs and hopefully other countries will follow suit (thinking Eastern Europe could fall like dominoes here :crossed_fingers:)
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I don't following this PR theory www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901
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that IRS page explicitly states that income from a U.S. based company is taxable
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if the company is PR-based, no federal taxes
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Filing taxes isn't the same as paying them though.
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The irs page explicitly states that you have to file taxes for income source outside PR. Just like I have to file taxes, but in still get to deduct almost all of it via FEIE
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(not that FEIE matters in this scenario, just pointing out that filing != being required to pay taxes on
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Not that we have anything to do with it kvbdtfnmcxgdz but when governments start understanding DN tax - we lose. Our grey area turns black/white. Seems like we don't want that. The rationale of the FEIE is that we're likely paying tax elsewhere even though we're really not. Recognizing our existence will likely result in greater tax on itinerant workers. zrsarrot I'm with you on PR tax thing. I've always hear that it's good for PR workers and those with capital gains. Not special for typical DN but maybe I'm missing something.
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gqmjfycldw that's a good point, possibly could push the US to change the law. I assume they know exactly what we're doing already and it's just not a big enough deal to bother with. Too many more acknowledgements from other countries could make them revisit it
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Only way I know of to not pay USA tax is to renounce your citizenship. Might be a good idea to establish citizenship somewhere else first :)
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Is there a reason that Isle of Man is not as popular a place to incorporate as a American digital nomad as Belize and Seychelles are?
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I might be missing something about how people structure a belize IBC as an american (like maybe you _can_ still access US-based banking, brokerages, etc through fully owning a US LLC?) but it seems to me like, despite brexit, devaluation of the pound, etc. UK banking/brokerage ecosystem is still pretty world class (and I am sure you can keep EUR, USD denominated accounts anyhow)
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I am in London this week and weighing going to Isle of Man a couple weeks
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bgibtxb I'm guessing Isle of Man costs more for formation and maintenance. But I've never checked. There is no requirement in those jurisdictions you mentioned to visit in person for setup.

Yes, sticking with US banks is easy and cheap. Using foreign banks becomes expensive and is unnecessary in my limited experience.
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it was the "New Manx Vehicle"/2006 Act structure I was looking at, which would seem to be 360 gbp/yr to maintain with no reporting requirements
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You are saying as a belize IBC/seychelles company you can still use US banks/brokerages?
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hqomshi My experience is limited but I had no issues setting up a US account via Transferwise. I was going to use Chase and assumed I'd need to use a subsidiary US entity but didn't bother since TW worked out.
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I do wonder about things like brokerage, though. Like to keep undistributed funds in a CMA w/ a brokerage. If Isle of Man company would make that significantly easier it would quickly make up the difference in cost I think ๐Ÿค”
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I.e. if the Isle of Man company could directly hold an account with Schwab UK
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vs. some more complicated structure with an IBC and US LLC
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Or maybe just move the funds back and forth to personal since there is no tax distinction generally.
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I don't know if that is true - that you couldn't just keep funds indefinitely/undistributed in the company and it's brokerages, which would prob be ideal
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Changed in 2017.
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ugh, this is the CFC thing?
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Was part of the trump tax bill.
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A lot of things have happened in the past couple years to change up US tax laws, some for the better and some worse. Since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, we now qualify for the QBI 20% reduction (since I make under $315k). So technically my wife and I are in the weird middle ground where we now save more on our tax burden via traditionally structuring as an LLC and living in the US than if we lived outside the US and claimed FEIE (because of "earned income" requirements etc)
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I am going to check with my accountant (who specializes in expat things) about this to try and get an (at least somewhat) authoritative answer. I fear everybody is right ๐Ÿ˜ฌ
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xjnizdp Can you share the name of your accountant? Actually, if anyone has people to recommend, I'd appreciate it. Thanks
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I do accounting things
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vworwripv it is Mark Dissen/Wayfare Accounting
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Thanks. I'll get to this early 2020.
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Hello everyone, is there any start up working on insurance or mortageg domain? If so please let me know would like to connect thank you :)
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npwmxfwyydmjg your message seems off-topic. Did you post it in the right place?
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Doesn't make sense to pay NYC taxes
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Just got an email from my HR "As the end of the year approaches, please confirm for us that you will be filing your US taxes with New Jersey as your home state." I worked this whole year remotely from overseas. Should I still file with NJ as home state? any idea?
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I โ€œmovedโ€ to Florida before leaving the USA to avoid this problem.
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Have they been withholding NJ taxes?
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thankfully since I was in TX before I left I had no need to bother with that
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jpevjkyn this would be a question for a tax professional for sure as state tax eligibility depends on a list of conditions, but typically unless you can prove to NJ that you legally reside elsewhere they will expect a tax return for you. you should definitely look into relocating that home state as NJ is the one of the states that doesn't honor FEIE so even if you claim that federally you'll owe NJ on all of your income.
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As of now, I don't have legal residence anywhere else. Looks like I have to pay NJ taxes but I will check with tax professional. Thanks
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rfgklxsn This is actually an area that we've been doing some research into. yqqtzyci is right about looking at eligibility requirements, and also consider your situation (are you nomad, slowmad, contractor, employee, etc). You could also qualify to file as a nonresident or part year (depending on US travel).

NJ is also one of a few states that has a telecommuter tax, so you may be subject to tax depsite residency.

Happy to chat further about your sitch specifics if you'd like. Feel free to DM me
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I never paid state taxes when I lived abroad. There was one year that I only lived in the state for the first three months, so I filed a partial residency return on just the income I made during those three months. NJ may be different with telecommuting laws.
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yeah, it varies on a state-by-state basis
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And case by case. It's not always advantageous to be considered transient
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South Dakota has special status for transient/nomads. AFAIK the only state that acknowledges a nomadic life as policy. Zero state income tax. Biggest downsides You need to visit every 5 years to renew your license (possibly avoidable), health insurance is non-existent or expensive
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Source I've been an SD resident for 5+ years
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Another bonus about being transient/nomadic in SD, is that you can use a remailing service as your legal address, which does require special paperwork but possible and nobody bats an eye when you file it
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Downside again You need to do this in person, and SD isn't necessarily an easy place to travel to
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โš–
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ywrepflzyzpjag if you live in a 0% income tax state itโ€™s the same effect right?
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Posting this here since it's all US folks - anybody have any experience with the free, reimbursable ATM card deal from >https://www.sofi.com/> ? The only thing I've heard that's not positive is that they have fewer customer service hours than Schwab if there's a problem. Otherwise I've heard they instantly return ATM fees (instead of end of the month like Schwab) and that they use the same exchange rate as Schwab. They also pay higher rates on cash. Anybody know anything negative/positive/otherwise?
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IMO chasing higher interest rates is a great way to end up with a shite bank
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A friend of mine worked for them and found the company culture quite good.
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I've heard good things about them.
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Well I decided to go ahead and get the ATM card but got this reply - "Thank you for applying for a SoFi Money account with SoFi Securities LLC. Under federal law, we are required to verify certain information about the identity of new account holders before opening new SoFi Money accounts. In reviewing your information, we were unable to confirm certain required information and are therefore unable to open a SoFi Money account for you at this time. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and we hope to be able to help in the future."

I'm guessing it's an address verification issue, or the fact that I'm on a Chile IP address, or maybe something else - beats me. I'm probably not sufficiently motivated to push it harder for now but I'd love another free card so who knows.
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I just signed up - no issues. I'll keep you posted.
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Great hshjfejwjgqewnf ! Can you just send me your card and PIN and I'll use that one? simple_smile
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For you U02T6G2G0? Iโ€™ll just post it right here.
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I tried to sign up for N26 the other day and received a message saying that I need to call a number
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I assume they noticed my IP was in an area theyโ€™re vigilant about or they didnโ€™t like my virtualpost mailbox address
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Keep in mind that this is the trial level federal court. >https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-privacy-idUSKBN1XM2O2>
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I havenโ€™t read the opinion, yet - but is that for US citizens only? pnojuuoiyk
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```
The plaintiffs in the case are 10 U.S. citizens and one lawful permanent resident
```
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thatโ€™s a really critical point most of the coverage seems to be missing
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Sorry to say Iโ€™m not sufficiently curious to read the 48 pages. Hereโ€™s a link to the opinion - >https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/alasaad_opinion_summary_judgment.pdf>
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I found it on the ACLU site
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just disappointed at how poor the coverage is
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thatโ€™s a very, very critical element
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LPRs have it rough
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speaking as one who just converted his status
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and shredded his letter from trump congratulating him
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ha
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If you are searched on US soil you are subject to US laws, which includes constitutional rights
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Iโ€™m aware - but those rights are distinct for US citizens
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that was my point
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A bit off-topic, but posting here since it's US-based has anyone considered or done Tulsa Remote? I'm not really looking to spend more time than necessary in the country, but the program seems interesting and I'm curious if it's got a nice community going
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As someone who grew up not that far from Tulsa, I'd say there's a reason they're trying to get people to go there...nobody wants to be there in the first place
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haha
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but they have rose rocks!
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Haha fair point -- I went there for a conference once and I kinda liked the post-industrial desolation, but I'm a weirdo like that ๐Ÿ˜‚
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by levelsio

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