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and even if you can leave your building compound in larger cities, what is there to do?
tfw when your gov probably already evacuated your fellow nationals out of prc but you wanna visit yourself ๐Ÿคฆ
pfqqsbggale thanks, I mean I sorta knew about all that but havenโ€™t been to China in ages or lived there longer than a month so itโ€™s good to hear the stark reality of it all again
Yeah I wasnโ€™t being super serious about it just yet lol, more of a what if
well, donโ€™t take anything anyone but people on the ground, with no real incentives to lie to you, tells you wrt PRC situation. This includes WHO, most foreign governments, Beijing, etc.
Look at the actions still taken inside PRC, of which it is harder to fake, easier for you to verify yourself.
Yeah agreed
wgjnhwiuifn so youโ€™re there right now?
No. Left sometime last year, meaning to go back in end dec but didnt due to rumors.
I am just basing the above on what I read from friends in PRC, in laws, etc, and randos on Chinese social media, and what the chinese people posting in academic journals (literal cries for help, in academic journals (to evade censorship probably)
Sometimes I watch the YouTube channels vlogs with the foreigner in China type of subject like serpentza and some other guy.. but man those turned dark last year
Kind of depressing as I always wanted to spend more time in China
PRCโ€™s a place you visit/live in despite of things, because you have some burning desire for XYZ that trumps all the negatives. I yearn for Beijing all the time. Alas.
Those guys, serpentza and milk dude (forgot exact name), once been in PRC for long enough, you either turn a gov shill or more negative.
I recommend www.chinalawblog.com/, specifically on the various posts that deals with โ€œhow easy is it being a foreigner in PRCโ€, see various posts on life as english teacher as ok canary in the coal mine.
It seemed like serpentza was pandering to YouTube traffic as well, the anti China videos were probably getting lots of views
Titles were very clickbaity
Yep, thereโ€™s that too Iโ€™m sure.
There's a real thirst for anti-China content.
There are lots of legit reasons to make anti-China content
Needing to register with the police ainโ€™t a new thing, though (if not stay hotel, where they do it for you). Police checking up on you, eg., calling you to confirm things, sure, is more frequent now.
zlqdftewgfxru - I noticed there are more active cases in the UK than in Chongqing. How are you guys?
xjukixkcdgxhdte Hey guys! Yeah, weird turn of events. We're in Xinjiang which is much larger even than UK and we now only have 4 confirmed that haven't recovered yet. Hard to celebrate while everyone else is now suffering around the world but we're being let outside today for the first time. We were originally geing told we had hourly windows to leave but this was updated to being able to walk around outside anytime during the day. We're only allowed to walk within the small building community but it's something. One car per family is allowed to leave the communities two days a week.

I know from friends that Xinjiang is in a much harsher lockdown where large areas or businesses elsewhere (e.g Chongqing) had resumed almost as normal (few restrictions on not being able to eat in at restaurants, only takeaway). Overall super encouraging.

Quite looking forward to stepping outside later and getting some air. First time in 42 days.
Unfortunately while it's a relief. It's bitter sweet. My immediate family in the UK and Ireland fall under the extremely vulnerable category due to underlying illnesses. Respiratory, immune and beyond. We're now switching roles to try support everyone back home.

Did you make it to Singapore in the end UBS4D9WDS?
That's amazing! I was somewhat hopeful you had been able to get out of Xinjiang, but I keep underestimating the restrictions clearly. I know fresh air is going to be fantastic for you guys. 42 days - I can't imagine.
I'm sure it will be hard to explain the differences between the UK/Ireland approach to containment vs China's. Sure you can put words to them, but - well, I've just given in with my mother in San Antonio and send her amazon links for prepper-type food kits. It seems to comfort her.
We head to Laos tomorrow. Singapore will be later in the spring it looks like. Assuming all could change at any time.
wow, 42 days
dxqtxptmbidifxg Yeah it's hard. I'm very concerned for whats happening in the west and the lack of large scale containment. Being here during the time we had even the first sniff of the virus we were thrown into the lockdowns. It felt absolutely necessary to catch it in time. It's difficult to watch all the conversation and debates happening of how best to continue with the economy while time ticks on.
Particularly seeing the spread despite those aggressive measures.
orosqiagqtyvice My folks thankfully took the warning signs from what happened here and stockpiled. Even though there's plenty saying don't. Isolation feels like the best approach at this point.
szoqfzact Yeah. Went through phases of being reclusive growing up and my immediate feelings even now looking at 42 days it feels like a small feat but it's incredibly difficult. In my case with in-laws that I don't really know and can only have limited interaction with due because Mandarin. You start to learn a lot about your own insecurities and theirs very quickly. Very relieved to hopefully never do this again.
Certainly have improved mindfulness about simple things like a wardrobe of clothes, time alone / privacy.
qgmbbeywzkrpu - when you do make it home, I hope there will be some ceremonial burning of the clothes you traveled with to Xinjiang. That's how I'd celebrate.
qmbokmvprgsztvi ๐Ÿ˜‚ Sounds like a plan. We don't know yet unfortunately. Hoping soon but it's still unpredictable. Believe other provinces will resume transportation nearly completely soon if they haven't already. We're in a little less predictable situation because of this province but hopefully soon.
dxpmokbzncliw did you improve on your mandarin during this period?
Being trapped with in-laws seems like a decent opportunity to practice maybe hah
kfcnambcg Fortunately, yes. Far from being proud of my level but it was definitely an extreme way to throw yourself into learning ๐Ÿ˜‚
xqxknttnajndr thanks for the report, very interesting. I'm wondering if china is a relatively safe place to hide out, starting a month or two from now
south korea, taiwan, etc also doing extremely well it seems
brhidcsxexuqilnl If you can get a visa and speak a little Chinese it'll help but I'd be worried for anyone at the minute who is trying to drip their toes into China at the moment. I spent three years in Taiwan before I came here and still went through a very unique feeling of helplessness and lack of independence here. Literally every life task is made significantly harder. This is before you throw in the risk of needing to get healthcare when you need it. It took me weeks to months just to figure my way around a reliable way to get outside access to the internet.

While on paper we're clearing up life has changed here. You need health cards, proof of health paperwork to travel, constant stops to leave details and have exchanges with police or security. Even just normally you need to visit police station and register yourself. It's a gamble as to if they have English.

Feel you'll be throwing yourself into a whirlwind of issues.

As rszbuthzl said, you could chose other locations and I'd probably recommend elsewhere for now.
Excellent info jewkuzikdhdsf
ipkepyqrgvfgmtqm No worries - it might be a little better in a month or two but don't know yet.
yttgjsywlcsqtiy apparently CCP also running campaigns to make it known as the "Italian virus" or as the "Japanese virus" etc
Official campaigns?
but i mean, those are also anti-CCP sources too so probably need to take with grain of salt
I posted this picture on FB and people are just reading the headlines and reacting - to my post about how you need to read past the headlines to get the whole story woman-shruggingskin-tone-4
At that point I give up.
The CCP is playing the long game... This is what do many countries and leaders either fail to see our refuse to see because they want short term gains.
Need to share a small story from this week this to warn anyone thinking to travel into CN during the virus. After our long period of lockdown (1.5 months), life started to resume and our troubles started. A large part of this is due to our current province but a large part is due to virus.

Sunday we were planning to buy snacks to head back to our home on Wednesay and we went out to stock up on supplies. We visited a friend 40 minutes away. The drive took 2.5 hours in total instead of the 45 minutes. We were stopped by Police but mostly SWAT at 7 different locations. 6 of those we were told to get out of the car for background checks and short interviews. This is entirely due to being a foreigner nearish to a border and this province so maybe not so indicative of what most will see visiting here. We got our snacks, headed home. Recieved call from police chief when we got home, told us to go to station. We had to visit a chiropractor 10 minutes after the call so we checked and they were fine with us showing up later. During that time of being out we had armed police arrive, we'd recieved calls threatening deportation and whole family was then called to the station at 12-1AM.

The apparent reason was failure to register our location upon arrival. We've been here a year and travelled extensively under the understanding that we only need to register to the police upon arriving in the country. This turned out not to be true and any change in province, city or town requires a new trip to the police station. We were called to a larger station, every one in the family interviewed with translators, signed transcripts, etc. During this thankfully we had local connections in the police to relieve the pressure and were instead given a fine and only myself had a record. We then needed to spend 2 further days driving miles and miles between mulitple police buildings to pay, stamp and get closure on the documents to be able to fly again. During that time we had 3-4 further police stops while walking the streets, several police decided to follow and question anyone we contacted.

During this time we had to also collect medical proof of quaratine, health, etc in order to fly. We made sure to overly cover ourselves with paperwork from the hospital to ensure we'd be fine. Day of flight, had to fill in multiple digital forms and QR codes (chinese only) to give further health proof at the airport. Both QR codes would be checked again and agian throughout the airport. Annoying but no big deal.

We boarded the plane, told to sit at the back of it which was odd as they're stewedess seats. Stewardess then recorded (throughout the hour flight to our layover) a long long list of our details. We were told to expect PPE wearing team to board the plane on arrival. They did, went through the plane but were mostly interested in us at the back. With a lot of back and forth with our data we were escorted off the plane with all other passangers still in their seats watching. The entire basis of which was based on my ethnicity alone and them being told to be on high alert for foreigners. Neither of us are symptomatic or came in contact with risk groups (this province has zero infections now and no new for weeks), temp checks were all good, were polite and behaved. But they didn't like our travel history of visiting Bali nearly 9 months ago. Majority of the healthcare staff, stewards and later the quaratine staff realised the redicilousness of our situation considering we'd already aquired all the paperwork, failed no tests and had no real issue with travel history but nobody could stop the process. We were then shuffled between three different busses while they found a hotel dedicated to quarantining COVID, we were then told to seperate out belongings between myself and my wife and we were seperated and put into quaratine for 14 days.

I will caveat this and say that throughout this week, the police were (eventually) very reasonable, the airline staff were exceptional and the PPE wearing (medical?) teams were sympathetic and understanding. Majority of who haven't been able to go home for 50 days, police and medical staff all sleep at work so I can't fault their efforts and they're just trying to do their jobs. The quaratine conditions are also fine.

But wanted to share this as a number of people have been asking in here and #general about feasability of being in China through this. You'll all be considered high risk targets for introducing the virus back into China and I'd highly recommend you stay away. Throughout every part of the process and hassle, as you'd expect in China there's no English or other languages for filling in all the paperwork, speaking to police, medical teams or whatever to give you a hassle free travel and as we found out, it makes no difference as they'll make the call to isolate you irrespective of any medical risk purely based on you being a foreigner.

TLDR Don't come here and ride this out at home, it'll be easier.
We've checked with the staff here and the province level policies and while they differ slightly a 14 day quarantine is required as of 15th March for every foreigner and those without fixed residency (majority of people here) will be put on a bus and sent to a quarantine hotel and told to stay in your room. This place didn't have WiFi until recently and I'd imagine it'd be a hellish and panick inducing introduction...

Say you ride it out and then feel like travelling around you'll likely face this issue again on entry to other provinces. Considering we were flying domestic the rule isn't for international inbound only.
WOW! Pretty obvious from that response that CCP is strongly pushing blame for coronavirus to outside of China. Uggghhhhhh
So the internal propaganda is going to be anti foreigner even more so..
There is some anti-american propaganda flying around but as you can understand with the country recovering and the cost and toll it's had they're frightened of reoccurring infections. The only spikes they've had for a long period have been imported cases so they're on very high alert.

That alert is compounded by people's fear of losing their jobs. Any slip up or person getting through the cracks because of any leniency then they'll all lose their jobs.
Well the focus on a Bali visit from 9 months ago seems bizzare though
Unless theyโ€™re seriously thinking it was an external infection..
Are you under a new 14 day quarantine now bktwatvzozyaa ?
On the other hand, if patient zero wasnโ€™t identified and itโ€™s known first infection is mid November ish?
Yeah, our thoughts exactly and a shared frustration for the staff here but someone made the call probably based on the new policies which seems to be irrespective of any other health proof or location history.
So they could be looking at foreigners with travel dates around October-November?
mvxzcrgyswecuyl Yeah - Unfortunately. Complete isolation this time.
nhginwhsm There doesn't seem to be any logic behind it. It just looks like a blanket policy and they don't want to risk their jobs arguing your case even if you're as clean as a whistle paperwork wise.
Thx for the update. Very sorry to hear you and your wife are separated in quarantine. That seems harsh.
sralvlzzipdnash Thanks Laura. We're still being treated well all things considered. Just wanted to clear up any ambiguity on China being a much safer place now there's less infected.
Itโ€™s good you are getting that message out. Dan and I have talked about Shanghai for the future as a place for work. That future is clearly distant.
Shanghai does tend to approach things differently and is more welcoming to foreigners in everyday times but with this virus I feel every location will be going to extra mile to keep their people safe.

If you're absolutely dead set on Shanghai you could still just commit to enduring the 14 day quarantine and then don't move around at all until the policies are relaxed. You could get away with that if you are willing to sacrifice those two weeks.
But you'll still likely struggle with all the required medical proof and travel processes.
Looks like weโ€™re going to settle in Japan for a while. See what the future holds.
i wonder hows the situation in hong kong
I would echo Philโ€™s writings. If you have not lived previously in China for many years, do not have local knowledge and language skills, do not already have an apartment or can easily get a decent place to stay, it is probably not worth it.
Better to go to singapore, or taiwain, or south korea when/if still possible to do so.
The designated quarantine hotels seem OK, but 5-10hrs experience from arrival in PRC to when at hotel, and even foreigners with years experience living in China writing summaries on twitter on their experiences had a not easy time. After being in half a day or more of travel mode and then have to navigate the post-arrival procedure, its tough.
also hong kong seems like a good choice
It is all relative. Better than many places, for sure. But what matters is where you have the ressources to easily stay at home for many, many months potentially.
Im in bali, situation doesnt seem pretty good here ... so im seriouly thinking about going to hong kong, even if i have to self quarantine
Taiwan shut its doors
Yep, โ€œ_when/if_โ€. If ever wanted to go to China and chill it out, shouldโ€™ve been when you could still quarantine in your own place, not now in designated hotels which hard to navigate without Chinese even (only can do so now if live alone & have contact to ๅฐๅŒบ/bldg compound people to get confirmation of this)
I think for vast majority of cases, even if you are in the hotspot of outbreak in your country, most people dont have adequate ressources elsewhere to go elsewhere and chill it out, so just stay home wherever you are.
can't really stay here, i already overstayed
Didnโ€™t Bali already talk about helping those stranded people in Bali due to virus/closings of borders, etc?
I know several Chinese in Bali that overstayed/couldnt go back weeks ago and they went to authorities and got fixes to stay until they could actually leave again.
just chinese, haven't said anything about helping citizens from other countries
Ah, I see. No idea then, but given all the other countries closing borders now, hopefully that might change. Who knows, obv.
so is it hard to navigate hong kong u think ?
things are different compared to the rest of china, afaik
Oh, as a know-nothing person wrt China & Hong Kong, HK obv much easier.
If you speak zero of either Chinese, HK much easier. Even if you do, HK probably still much easier. As a random foreigner, HK much, much easier to navigate than mainland.
I donโ€™t know latest on HK covid19 situation, but seems OK, maybe not as good as Taiwan or Singapore, hard to know exactly, but for sure better than most other places, but still the question is if you can stay at home there for longer periods.
singapore has more cases than HK
what's on in China these days?
Just wanted to add to this. We've been told by the quarantine staff that if we'd arrived four hours later into quarantine their new policy was to charge for the experience. Unverified but heard of one person being billed 8,000 CNY.

So the below may now also (perhaps depending on province) be at your expense.

We saw an impressive number of travelers to China at BKK. All I could think is everyone in this check in line headed to a 14 day quarantine as soon as they arrive. There were a fair number of western faces in line, 15% maybe.
When I wrote the above, it was already at your own expense, at least according to few twitter threads + what other friends told me. At least in Beijing, before they now moved to arrive in neighboring airports instead than in Beijing for intl flights, there was a 500 and 600 rmb per night option. Other regions may vary.
ussesqaskro Ah - We must be a bit late to the party. Not many foreigners visit this province so may not have been an issue here until recently. Beijing seem to be operating quite differently from the other provinces too as seems some people getting through without quarantine.
Yep, each province is different. As of today, all intl flights to Beijing will land in one of a dozen neighboring airports and do medical checks + quarantines there, before move on to Beijing. At least this is what some official sources say, havenโ€™t seen this verified by anyone that underwent it yet.
That Beijing is where most precautions are made obviously makes sense.
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