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Re. the SRT (Statutory Residence Test) often discussed on here. I talked to an accountant who specialises in this area and he mentioned that it can be misleading.
For example, say you’ve spent <16d in the UK in a given tax year, while being tax-resident in at least one of the three previous tax years. According to a strict reading of the SRT, you’re not UK tax-resident.
However, because tax residence tends to be ‘adhesive’ (harder to leave than enter), this may not be enough for HMRC. Say you’ve swanned around here and there for a couple of months apiece, deliberately avoiding tax residence. HMRC may simply take the view that you’re still resident in the UK and regard the travel as holiday.
What’s needed is a definite departure date. Best of all is some kind of employment contract abroad, even if that’s as a director for an AbroadCo that you set up. It obviously helps to rent or buy a place abroad as well.
Curious to hear from others that have ceased UK tax residence, ideally a year or two already down the line, if this chimes with your experience, if you were challenged on anything in particular?
Having a rental contract for a property abroad was a deciding factor for my U.K. tax residence at end of 19/20 as a 2 week trip to the U.K. ended up being delayed to a few months due to covid, so I guess that would chime with what you’re saying. Although in 6 years that’s the only time that’s been a factor as typically I would pass several other tests.
I’ve never had suggestions that being a freelancer / working for own company didn’t qualify as Working Full Time Overseas
Imagine with remote work and nomads potentially becoming more common place there may be case law that improves the rules but currently it’s down to interpretation and your intentions
Hard for tax man to say you’re on holiday if you’re working everyday.
Isn't a deciding factor also whether you become tax resident in another country? I imagine it would be a lot easier to argue that you're no longer a UK tax resident if you're paying taxes somewhere else vs. you're trying to avoid paying taxes anywhere
Decisive is a big word. If the amounts are modest and the circumstances straightforward, a tax residence certificate elsewhere will probably be a further inducement for HMRC not to bother digging further. I don’t think it’s a catch-all. Legislation like this surely evolves to be able to catch more people, not fewer.
Agree totally on the pay somewhere rather than nowhere point
I took the “employment contract abroad” route
It has a pleasing simplicity in that it’s definitely something people do for non-tax-avoidance reasons
How does that work? How do you handle that moving around for different countries? You setup a branch in the country you’re visiting and declare and pay taxes there? lntbxoscrhmsbhtt
Branch means you could get stung for exit taxes or have to muck around setting up local directors back in the UK, ensuring direction and control and board meetings happen in the uk
Less messy to liquidate and set up a new non-UkCo
zktadsvtgyy I found a company in Thailand that would bill my IOM Ltd and pay me a salary
I’m sure there are cheaper options in other countries if you don’t also want a Thai work permit
bbspyqzppid the other countries — beyond the one you’re trying to establish residency in — really don’t care
Considering moving the setup to be Panama
I am using Iglu in Thailand right now, but I haven’t found similar services in any other countries.
sukwbdjijmw me too. In many countries you simply start your own company, as I understand it. We’ve been thinking of both Montenegro and Panama
Montenegro is 10% tax on remitted income, which has the benefit that you do end up actually paying tax somewhere that isn’t a byword for tax haven
nhxhoul Let us know when you find the best accountants for your situation.

Our situations are extremely similar.

Got an LTD & planning to do the same thing. Also puzzled at what an accountant does.

Does this advice make sense to you?

Pay yourself a salary of £12,570 through PAYE and an extra £2000 in tax free dividends.

NI contributions tax would be paid on any earnings over £9,568 ensuring you get state pension from the age of 55 onwards.

Any company profits over £14,570 can be invested into a Wealthify or Nutmeg investment account as long as it stays in the account for no longer than 9 months, then it doesn’t count as a director’s loan.

If the company is turning over £29K+ after expenses, employ 2 people at the above salary.

Living abroad would not effect any of this & you’ld still get access to the NHS when coming back as long as those taxes are paid.
tfajjjwuzkuwkbwcut I earn in multiple currencies and i was originally recommended by a friend who nomads too! They’ve never had an issue with me nomading and have always been helpful. My tax residency has always been UK though!
izidvlgtlo If you refer me, what perks can we get?
For what it's worth, the 'statutory' part of 'statutory residence test' refers to the fact that the test is explicitly defined in law.
HMRC is legally bound by the test as enacted in Schedule 45 of the Finance Act, and can't decide to arbitrarily disregard the rules and take a different view.

Some parts of the SRT are open to interpretation, but the first and second automatic overseas tests are extremely clear. If you can prove you spent fewer than 16 days in the UK, you have an iron-clad case for being non-resident.
bhlqhdfbfq Worth having a look at the Gaines-Cooper case, the key reason the SRT was brought in.
“Lord Wilson SCJ famously said in the case of _Gaines-Cooper (R (on the application of Davies & Another)) v HMRC_ and _R (on the application of Gaines-Cooper) v HMRC_ [2011] STC 2249 at para 20) that determining a person’s country of residence may require ‘a multifactorial inquiry.’ 
Even though the Statutory Residence Test has been enacted since _Gaines-Cooper_ was decided (in FA 2013 s 218 and Sch 45), such is the imprecision of the concepts used in that test that a multifactorial enquiry is still required to determine residence in all but the simplest cases.”
simple example how do you define ‘home’ (a key part of the automatic tests you refer to, ‘all homes are in the UK’ etc)? Peterson Sims told me that in specific cases it could include a hotel or Airbnb.
In Gaines-Cooper they stress the importance of a definitive break from the UK, and this is also the guidance I’ve received from an adviser extremely well-versed in the SRT and used to defending cases
So again, I think it can be misleading.
Yes, that case is one of the reasons the SRT was introduced. Now that residency is defined in statute, that statutory definition takes precedence over any prior case law, and Gaines-Cooper is no longer relevant.
There is still some ambiguity in parts of the test, like the definition of a 'home', but for the most part that ambiguity is very clearly signposted in the legislation, and also discussed at tedious length in HMRC's official guidance.
But yeah, If your case comes down to a sufficient ties test, or quibbling over where you have homes, obviously it's best to make your situation as clear as possible.
i'd like that referral too please 🙂
I believe we each get a cheaper monthly price. I can find out!
xrmsxaqbxe If you spend less than 16 days in the UK, can you still access the NHS & get prescriptions despite not paying tax?

Will state pensions still pay out at the age of 55?
zgnoebrnfrqqwzcdun you need to have minimum NI contributions, which is done on a year-by-year basis
Check that here (as long as you've signed up to online tax) - www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
That's just for getting the maximum state pension, no? To get anything at all you just have to contribute for 10 years IIRC
Pay out at 55 is pretty optimistic too though
And in reality by the time I actually reach 65
This will likely say "Does your skeleton physically still allow you to stand?" - "Yes?" - "No pension for you yet"
Nah you can sit and still work, we’ll just hook you up to a VR office
We'll hook you up to the cognitive labour pod
Most NHS services are only available to you if you're "ordinarily resident", which is another vaguely defined concept, but most likely you're not if you only spend a few days in UK and pay your taxes somewhere else... "How to access NHS services in England if you are visiting from abroad - NHS" www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/how-to-access-nhs-services-in-england-if-you-are-visiting-from-abroad/|https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/how-to-access-nhs-services-in-england-if-you-are-visiting-from-abroad/
djzralarmecoacbqkh You’re not eligible for the NHS as a non resident, however, you’re eligible again when you become resident again. Also nobody ever really checks
There was some confusion back in the day about minimum residence periods, but my conclusion last time I properly looked into it was that if you accept a job or sign a lease back in the UK then that counts from day one
And as per ctzcxtzdmuh in terms of voluntary NI contributions. I think I pay £12 a month?
If you stop being a tax resident another thing to consider is that you need to stop contributions into your ISA accounts.
Yeah things like that are what prevent me from pulling the trigger right this moment
That tied in with things like EIS
yep still it’s 20k year that doesn’t go in 🙂
i think you can also withdraw without penalties and move them in between your existing ones
yah, withdrawls are fine
:scream_cat:Anyway to get back NI contributions & just move to Bali?
Aye, for the state pension it’s impossible.

For private pensions schemes, it’s possible
HMRC have said that they will disregard certain days if you were forced to remain in the UK because of Covid. home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2020/08/flash-alert-2020-353.html|UK–Further Guidance on Statutory Residence and COVID-19 - KPMG Global (home.kpmg)>
🛬 mlqiwmlpne just arrived in 🇬🇧 Cambridge, #united-kingdom
Thanks. My issue was to do with days spent in own property.
What do you do with a maxed out Help to buy ISA? that may never get used?

It was set up years ago when I was young & silly thinking I’ld buy a place to live in then rent it out. That dream has since died.

What’s trapped in there is a years worth of living expenses which would be better off in stocks & shares.

If I close the Help to Buy down
...would I be able to ever open another up?
No, they’re closed to new applicants, but it doesn’t look like that great of a deal? Redeem it and put it in a S&S ISA instead following an index tracker
Do you have more than £20k in it?
> The most you'll get the bonus on is £12,000 (so a £3,000 bonus)
This is a shitty deal
Indeed a shitty deal.

Tempted with Nutmeg or Wealthify or throwing it into a pension pot that could be accessed at the age of 55. Would be a few decades to go. Not sure if it could be worth it
efmhlcbmmigiupcznn the lifetime ISA serves very much the same purpose just with a bit more flexibility on how it gets used. So I wouldn't worry as you can always use that instead.
I’m not sure if there’s a penalty to withdraw from H2B into something else
I checked, there is not
i've had success with fb groups or short-term housing in london, and spareroom
hfcgztaebopfefgw This is the conundrum.

Which is best- an ISA or pension scheme which can be taken out before tax via PAYE? What have people tried?

Either of them would be better than that cash just sat in the help to buy ISA.
lhngccfztx Got that too joy_cat+1
For money that’s already in savings/help to buy, a regular ISA for sure
The weather is unreasonably sunny/warm this upcoming week; any interest in a park hang?
I'd be up for it :)
I'm down, I can probably make any day other than Thursday work
🛬 qganulvbxo just arrived in Aberystwyth, #united-kingdom
If I'm free, I'm up for it!
Had anyone tested to release recently? We’ve got an Airbnb booked for 6 days, and I’m imagining I can do Day 2&8 via post, and then try an in-person clinic with 24hr turn around for Day 5?
I did
But I did T2R by post
Our day 5 is on a Saturday, not sure I wanna risk that?
If you use something like Randox they operate 24/7
However, with the post-based ones next day can mean end of the next day, making it effectively 2 days
Yah, I think we’ll try and find an in-person one crack of dawn on day 5
the in-person one i used was called Biograd Diagnostics; one in canary wharf, one in west london. they gave a 24-hour turnaround, and were extremely easy to use; popped in and out
Just keep in mind that it's technically 5 full days, i.e. 5x24 hours after you landed (BioGrad were pretty explicit about that, not sure if other test centers care much through)
Interesting, thanks
Avoid expresstest - nothing express about them! Took 48 hours to get results several times
Everyone still melting?
Hayfever killing me today
Global warming
Think it's gonna cool down soon. but looks like another heatwave on the way in august!
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