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Estonia E-Residency & CFC


in Estonia by @edusantorini | 2yr  | 7 comments

So, Iโ€™ve been looking into e-residency and moving my business to Estonia the past few weeks.
Iโ€™m still a tax resident in Germany and therefore fear Iโ€™ll be suspect to CFC laws. I somehow canโ€™t find any reliable info on this and I donโ€™t feel like reading through the whole law, so just wondering if anyone knows how CFC laws in EU countries come into practice. What taxes do I need to pay exactly? As soon as I cash out (dividends), as far as I can see I need to pay 20% income tax in Estonia. Then what? Of course, I would need to pay income tax in Germany. What taxes do I need to pay besides these?
And if I keep the money in Estonia/reinvest it, am I right that I wouldnโ€™t need to pay any taxes at all? Only for the money I cash out of Estonia/the business?

Iโ€™m by the way not doing this to evade taxes, taxes are secondary. I primarily simply want to move my business activities out of Germany + the all-digital concept and the bookkeeping service of agencies like leapIN are interesting.

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@flipchan | 2yr

Is the online banking and online tax filling in english? How is the estonian gov to do buisness with? I wonder if its as good as its sounds

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@dominikmayer | 2yr

Thanks for all the information. Iโ€™ve been wondering about how this works for a while.

When I discussed foreign companies with my German tax consultants last year they told me that the German authorities do a legal fiction and treat a foreign company as if it was in Germany as long as I (officially) live in Germany. If I live in another country those authorities might treat the company as if it was there.

Is that what you guys mean with the additional cost?

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@juliusz | 2yr

There is a difference between CIT and PIT and, different taxes apply to dividends and profits from a company and salaries.

Your Company and You are separate entities:

You pay PIT on all income + social contributions from salary, usually where you live.
Your Company pays CIT, usually wherever itโ€™s registered.

CFC will only affect companies moving out (at least thatโ€™s the requirement, i.e. Poland hits everyone and everything with CFC regulations, which are nothing else than anti-competition laws in the end.).

If you stay in Germany you will pay PIT in Germany, however you will pay your CIT in Estonia. Estonia only charges CIT on the profits you pay out as dividends. And this is tricky to understand. Think of it, the other way around: Estonia charges the company 0% tax on profit that stays in the company, but the company pays 20% tax on profit payed out to shareholders. Itโ€™s not you that is subject of that tax, itโ€™s your company.

After that youโ€™re subjected to tax of dividends as part of your PIT in Germany. Dividends are usually taxed more preferentially than salaries. Still, Estonia is very tax expensive if you pay out most of your profit.

Alternative is to pay out salary from Estonian Company. However if youโ€™re only beneficial owner of the company - a big chunk of your salary has to be a bard member salary (30% I have been told) which is subject to Estonian tax 20% + 30% Estonian Social Contribution, unless you pay social contributions in another EU Country (in your case Germany). Rest can be payed as salary for any services you provide to the Company, and taxed as salary in Germany.

As you can see it does add a lot to complexity, but might save you few EUR.

Saying that if you do business in Germany for German Clients your company might be deemed a shell company which is real tax avoidance scheme, and charged CIT in Germany.

I was looking into that, I even got the e-residency, but I recalculated and itโ€™s cheaper to incorporate in Romania, Bulgaria, or other. For me Gibraltar is the best option, but I travel and I will aim for tax residency in Portugal.

Th real benefit of Estonia is that you can do most signature requiring activities online, and it is supposedly easy to run things from legal perspective.

I heard that German Revenue office is becoming more and more aggressive as taxpayers flee the system, actually over-taxation of Germany and France is the main reason EU is introducing exit tax. They are afraid that Britain will introduce preferential rates.

PS> Iโ€™m not a consultant, all of the above is my opinion based on some research I did. I might be wrong :slight_smile:

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@reinissietins | 2yr

Hello friedelio, my name is Reinis and last 8 years I have been working in management consulting area in Baltics. Since the e-residency is a big thing in Estonia, we are consulting customers from all over the world about this subject.
gilgildner is partially right about double taxation - it applies on level of personal taxation, therefore by definition you wouldnโ€™t be able to avoid taxation in Germany, however, it is incorrect to state that there would be simply 20% more, because it always depends on double tax agreements between involved jurisdictions - in this case DTA between Estonia and Germany.

I wouldnโ€™t agree that e-residency is a useless tool and even more - I wouldnโ€™t agree that it is a useless tool for people from USA and / or Germany. However, it canโ€™t be considered as tax evasion tool as well.

It always depends on type of your business. If you are working as a freelancer, then there are many benefits to obtain e-residency. Especially when you compare tax administration systems in Estonia and Germany. You would be surprised how easy and convenient it is to do all legal proceedings in Estonia.

If you set up your Estonian company in a right way and you are oriented on development of the business, then overall costs would be lower than business costs in Germany. If you wish to discuss this in private, then feel free to look me up on Linkedin or on facebook and I could tell you more about this depending on your specific business model.

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@taylorsteelman | 2yr

You will get some varying responses to this, but I did some pretty extensive research on the e-residency possibility last year.

My opinion is that unless you are from outside the western banking world, Estonia E-residency is worthless and expensive. The single benefit it has is giving access to the EU banking system, which could be invaluable for a startup from Nigeria or Kazakhstan. Otherwise, it is simply another step in between you and your income, and it will end up costing you 20%.

For someone from Germany, or the US (like myself) it is literally just an extra tax. The accounting and business registration services are handy, but available almost anywhere else.

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@edusantorini | 2yr

I donโ€™t really get how it would cost me an extra 20% though. Sorry for the really dumb question, but Iโ€™m not really familiar with CFC & double taxation. Arenโ€™t double taxation treaties in place to safe me from paying double tax? So, wouldnโ€™t every tax Iโ€™d pay in Estonia (the 20% income tax?) be offset in Germany, so I donโ€™t have to pay that again? I donโ€™t see how it would cost me more than running the business in Germany.

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@taylorsteelman | 2yr

Iโ€™m no tax expert, but for me specifically the double taxation only applies on a personal income level. We have multiple companies registered in different countries, but we are not able to use one company to reduce our tax load.

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Read and participate in 13,969 discussions on Nomad List

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What are some nice French beach towns?

 

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I'm thinking to head over to France during the winter and I'm looking for recommendations on a good French town that has beach and is warm enough during the winter.

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Hi guys ! hope you are doing well.

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Driving from Italy to Croatia..how to handle passport?


in Croatia by @ld | 9d 8 days ago | 3 comments

Hello, we are US citizens that have been able to stay in Italy past our standard visa stay due to covid. Now we must leave. We want to drive to Croatia as our โ€œout of EUโ€ stay. But Iโ€™m now wondering what considerations I need to take care of for my visa. I wonโ€™t go through an airport and get my passport stamped. But I assume I need to get my passport stamped as a way to prove Iโ€™m out of the EU.

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Introduce yourself โ€” who are you, where are you and what do you do?

 

by @coffeeshopceo | 13d 13 days ago | 672 comments

tl;dr: introduce yourself in this thread.

We must all get sick of the same backpacker travel questions when we meet new friends, I know I do.

You know the ones - where are you from, whereโ€™ve you been, where are you going, what do you do, how long have you been doing it - etc.

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No need to answer them all if you donโ€™t want to :smile:
But the more you shareโ€ฆ The merrier!

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Best/quickest way from Italy to Croatia?


in Croatia by @ld | 15d 15 days ago | 3 comments

Hello,

We are in Umbria until August 31. We've been here since March, but crisis-level visa extensions are over. After that we have to leave the EU. We would like to stay out of the USA (our home) due to it's covid crisis, at the same time we want to be responsible about travel. Ideally we would not travel at all, rather stay hidden in the countryside of Umbria forever until covid is more under control globally, but here we are!

So we must leave the Schengen zone. We should avoid USA. We should avoid long air travel.

We were thinking Croatia.

Do you recommend a route to Croatia? We are open to long train rides. Ideally not long ferry rides. Is there a ferry route under 4 hours? I read about it...I don't see it. If not, the other option is to make our way north and up over to Croatia via train.

I'd appreciate your thoughts and insights!

Thanks.

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Where should I set up my company as a remote worker?


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Anybody bring their car to Mexico instead of flying?


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Did you learn any Thai before staying in Chiang Mai?


in Chiang Mai, Thailand by @digitaldiva | 20d 19 days ago | 0 comments

Iโ€™m curious to know how many people learned some Thai before going there. Learning languages is a hobby of mine but Iโ€™m very put off by how complex the writing system is, and if I decide not to learn it Iโ€™ll probably cross Chiang Mai off my bucket list. I prefer to be at least conversational in a language before I do an extended stay in a country. Iโ€™m curious how people who learned no Thai did getting by. And Iโ€™m curious, from people who did learn some, if itโ€™s any easier than it seems? Thanks!

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by @jackgopack | 24d 24 days ago | 39 comments

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Cheap Cities in Mexico & South America with Fastest Wifi


in Mexico by @jnomad30 | 1yr 1 year ago | 3 comments

Hi Guys,
Iโ€™m planning out my next stops after leaving Medellin, Colombia soon where I can hunker down and get some work done with fast wifi and cheap living. Will be in Mexico first so starting a look there but wondering if coming back down to South America might make more sense?
My main concerns are budget and fast enough wifi for me to work from home. Other considerations are some nomad community (ideally also some English speaking expats as my Spanish is basic) and warm enough weather.
Thanks in advance!

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Any Estonia e-residency company viritual office provider that accepts cryptocurrency?


in Estonia by @64tankman | 1yr 1 year ago | 0 comments

I previously use Profia. Contract is ending and I want to have someone who accepts crypto payment instead.

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Hey,
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I want to rent an apartment for 3 months

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in Tallinn, Estonia by @kaizenpreneur | 3yr 2 years ago | 3 comments

Iโ€™m heading to Tallinn next month to pick up my e-residency. Iโ€™ve built some time into my schedule, giving me 8 days or so to get from Tallinn to London for a meeting.

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in Thailand by @artofbryce | 3yr 2 years ago | 5 comments

Weโ€™re setting off on our first venture for new digital nomad life in 20 days!

  • starting in Chiang Mai as our home base
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Right now, Iโ€™m utterly baffled and confused by trying to figure out how weโ€™re going to be able to get more cash or transfer money from our bank accounts in Canada. Either at all or without getting charged insane fees.

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Iโ€™m looking for a remote accounting and company admin office in Bulgaria for handling a limited company fully remotely with 1-2 invoices per month max.

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