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Why is South East Asia preferred by nomads over Latin America?

 

by @oskar 8yr  | 34 comments

Hi guys

Why do you think south east asia attracts far more 1st world digital nomads and tourists than latin america does? i have some theories but i would like to know your opinions because most of the people in this forum are from 1st world countries :smile:
Is it because is cheaper? safer? closer? more โ€œcoolโ€ ?

thanks

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Visa wise too.
In LATAM you have 1-3-6 months visa per calendar year so you can only rent with furniture(higher cost) and move to another country after (more cost), stay in Airbnb/hotel (more more cost).
How is SEA visa wise? Can you just go out, get in?

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We found visas in Central America easier to deal with as most are on arrival. No experience with South America yet beyond Colombia which was easy too.

Southeast Asia requires a little more planning I would say โ€“ Vietnam needs a couple days of processing and passport pictures, Indonesia is 30 days which can be extended another 30, Thailand is 30 unless you apply for a renewable visa from your home country, etc. Of course, people do things like visa runs or simply pay fines to stay much longer.

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@jonmyers 8yr

Iโ€™ve lived around South America (Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador) and presently live in Vietnam.

Personally, I prefer Southeast Asia due to the climate, lifestyle optimizations (getting things made, household management, etc.) transport options (Singapore in and hour and a half, easy flight to HK, fly straight to Dubai in 7.5 hours) - beach options, work ethic and entrepreneur expat scene.

Culturally, I prefer South America, but then again, if I fully embraced the culture, I would never get anything doneโ€ฆ

I know Colombia is demonstrating positive economic growth, but if you have any aspirations of actually doing business where you live, Southeast Asia is a better bet in my opinion and on a stronger growth trajectory.

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@oskar 8yr

El poblado is an upscale neighborhood where mostly expats and rich people from medellin live. Its like a bubble. Venture outside the bubble and you will see the reality for most of the people living there. I commend you to take the metro, which is quite good but you will see the city in a whole different perspective. And of course do it during the day :smile:

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@giovanni 8yr

Iโ€™m in Medellin. Think itโ€™s pretty cheap when talking about fruits (pineapple 0,6-1 euro), eggs (3,5 euro/30eggs), dinners out, taxiโ€™s/Uberโ€ฆ Comparing to Europe that is.

Rent in this area is expensive, especially when using Airbnb. But, the quality of our place is just perfect.

I also feel safe here. But, Iโ€™m staying in El Poblado en only venture out to the center (using Uber) during day times. No reason for me to go there at night. Thereโ€™s enough to do in the area.

Safety in Latin America mainly depends on where you stay, where you go (time) and own behaviour.

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LatAm airlines are notoriously inefficient but flying around domestically even just in Australia can often be even more expensive. SE Asia has airlines like AirAsia that have everyone else including first world countries completely beat on value. Itโ€™s generally quite cheap to go from SE Asia to other Asian countries and maybe even Europe, thatโ€™s probably why.

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@kathrynoh 8yr

Ha, maybe one of the reasons Latin America is less popular is because people donโ€™t understand the difference between the Southern and Northern hemispheres :smile:

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As someone who is wrapping up 3 months of living and traveling in Mexicoโ€ฆI have to say, I have never felt safer. Granted, I didnโ€™t spend any time anywhere near the northern border but I have walked around in the middle of the night in some places and never had any issues. Iโ€™ve havenโ€™t been to SEA yet but will be there in January through March. I like the general randomness of Mexico: the broken sidewalks with cats lazily laying upon them, my housekeeper spending more time gossiping about her neighbors with me than actually cleaning and the door to door bread vendors. Ironically, before going to SEA, Iโ€™ll be spending a month in Washington, DC, my old stomping grounds and the only place where I have ever had a pistol pressed up against my head while being relieved of my wallet and cell phone (3 blocks from the US Capital complex no less, the most heavily policed piece of real estate in North America).

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@rudiments 8yr

I agree. My wife and I have been cycling through Mexico for six months now. We did our homework and the safety concerns for this country are definitely overstated, at least for foreigners. The States would be more scary (if I spent much time thinking about such things) because there shootings are much more random rather than being related with cartels. However, weโ€™ve also been told that this feeling of safety walking around at night in cities does not exist many other places in Latin America.

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@oskar 8yr

@levelsio

Some thoughts:

  • If you want to eat well in south america, go to Lima, Peru. Peruvian cuisine is considered as one of the finest in the world. I was surprised in London to see many upscale peruvian restaurants there.
  • Colombia being dangerous, i totally agree. I dont understand why people flock there, i also felt unsafe, and this coming from someone that has been born in south america! If you want safety go to Chile or Uruguay, the rest is a messโ€ฆ
  • Transportation is expensive as f**k but you have to keep mind that south america is huge and lacks budget airlines + infrastructureโ€ฆ
    -Inefficiency, yeah i hate it, thank god iโ€™m a nomad, so anytime iโ€™m going back to the first world! :smile:
  • Brazil is part of Latin America. They were colonized by the portuguese, and they speak a latin language. They are not hispanic americans, but they are latin americans.

cheers!

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@levelsio 8yr

Brazilians donโ€™t consider themselves to be part of Latin America (or South America really) and feel closer to US and Europe: https://www.quora.com/How-close-does-Brazil-feel-to-the-rest-of-Latin-America

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@oskar 8yr

@levelsio

This is like saying that the english people donโ€™t consider themselves as europeans even if they are in europe, their roots are anglo-saxon and speak a germanic language. Its odd they dont feel closer to Africa given the fact that a big portion of brazilians are from african descent. I would only expect people from Argentina or Uruguay to feel closer to Europe knowing that more than 85% of their population are descendants of people that came from that continent.

Most of the guys in the quora link argue that they feel closer to europe because they were not colonized by the spanish and they dont speak spanish as the rest of latin america so they dont share the same culture, and brazil is huge and live in โ€œisolationโ€. All those things are true, but conceptually speaking they still are โ€œlatinamericansโ€, people born in South America with a latin heritage (portuguese culture and language).

Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America and you will see that Brazil is part of it.

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How is Chile, specially reneca beach Chile?

Are all those comments above are true for Chile too โ€ฆ@Oskar @levelsio?

Thinking to go there for two months, need to decide, if thatโ€™s the case told my @levelsio I need to re-think about going there.

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@oskar 8yr

Chile is safer and more developed than most countries in the region. Its expensive for most things. Efficiency is โ€œgoodโ€ for south america but still not at 1st world levels. Reรฑaca is nice in the summer months :smile:

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Is it Summer now or Winter?

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@oskar 8yr

Summer in the southern hemisphere starts in december and ends in march :slight_smile:

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That means If I go in Jan and stay till March I will find summer right?

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@oskar 8yr

That is correct, summer should end by March

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@levelsio 8yr

Iโ€™m in Latin America right now, and as much as I like it here I can give a few reasons:

  • Itโ€™s not cheap, itโ€™s actually really expensive to live here. Grocery food prices (vegetables, fruits especially) are high relative to even Western Europe. Meat is pretty cheap, thatโ€™s good.

  • Transportation is ridiculously expensive. A ONE-WAY flight from Colombia to Bolivia is $600. You know for less than that I can fly from Europe to Thailand sometimes? A similar distance in South East Asia would be $50 to $100.

  • Food isnโ€™t amazing or healthy, itโ€™s mostly fried, everything is meat, and some potatoes. Iโ€™ve never gained weight in my life and I can see the fat grow on my body here, haha :smiley:

  • Latin America is still dominated by a sexist machissimo culture where itโ€™s impossible to walk with my girlfriend on the street in many places (like Colombia) without her being constantly catcalled and harassed. Itโ€™s ridiculous.

  • Safety is a giant concern here, even for guys. Iโ€™m in Panama now where for the first time I feel relatively safe again. Colombia was hell due to constant risk of robbery at gun point. Many people trivialize the safety issues in Latin America (especially Latin people themselves), but thatโ€™s ridiculous. Thereโ€™s stories every month of a local of foreigner being shot (through the head) by a robber because they didnโ€™t want to give up their iPhone. Sure thatโ€™s stupid of them, but thatโ€™s not okay either. Time to fix that shit. This situation is all over South America though.

  • Inefficiency is part of the culture. Ordering food will usually take 30 to 45 minutes. Half the time youโ€™ll get the wrong order. People will forget your orders. You go for laundry, you ask โ€œwhen is it done?โ€, they say โ€œin one dayโ€, then three days later you pick it up and itโ€™s not done, and everybody smiles. Thatโ€™s great, but itโ€™s also really annoying.

P.S. Brazil is not considered Latin America

Iโ€™d like to close off with that Latin American people are some of the most friendly, caring and sweet people Iโ€™ve ever met. And most of these complaints come from first world entitlement. Iโ€™m used to everything being in order and structured. So itโ€™s kind of love/hate for me. Thereโ€™s something romantic about everything being full of serendipity, thatโ€™s the Latin spirit. It seems itโ€™s not so much about the end goal here, more about enjoying the journey (every day is a celebration). I appreciate that.

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Interesting - I was able to find some less expensive food - but agree about the quality, that was one of my biggest frustration points.

I hear you on the machismo, definitely witnessed it, as well as sexual orientation insensitivies and flat out racism towards asians (more immaturity - but things like squinting their eyes and thinking itโ€™s funny)

But safety? I actually had the opposite impression of Colombia and was very pleased with me reception and safety. Almost 0 risk or fear of theft or violence. I was living in Cali, Pereira & Medellin.

Inefficiency is certainly a deep element of the culture.

I agree with most of your points.

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@toby 8yr

Generally flying in LA is expensive, but Colombia -> Peru is around $200 with VivaColombia. Iโ€™m flying from Colombia to Rio for carnival for less than $200. If you know where to look you can get good deals but majority of stuff is expensive.

Basically agree with the rest

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@levelsio 8yr

Oops, changed it to Colombia -> Bolivia https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=BOG;t=LPB;d=2015-12-25;r=2015-12-29;tt=o

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Carnival i.e the one organized by ennovison ?

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@rudiments 8yr

Where are you that groceries are so expensive? In Mexico they are insanely cheap, especially fruit.

The inefficiency does get to me sometimes, but then I remind myself that is tied intricately with the things I love best about this place, the lack of stress and random anger.

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Iโ€™m guessing he was talking about Medellin and he was correct about costs. Aside from language, Mexico and Colombia donโ€™t have much in common. Iโ€™ve lived in both and would take Mexico any time especially for cost and safety.

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@sfomadeze 8yr

In general I think people prefer SEA because they see it as more exotic, more different. Others I think are drawn to the reputation it has garnered as a cheaper destination or to the beaches or to Asian women.

Personally I prefer LATAM over SEA because I speak Spanish and can blend in more. I can surround myself with other expats if I choose to, but I donโ€™t have to. I like taking classes with locals.

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@giovanni 8yr

I donโ€™t care for the cost. I personally love Latin/central America. I enjoy spending some weeks in Thailand, Singapore,โ€ฆ food is much better to start with, butโ€ฆ I can easily live long term in Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica,โ€ฆ while I could never live long term in Asia. Love the music & vibe in Latin America, easier for me to blend in and as a European it was pretty easy to learn Portuguese and some Spanish. Iโ€™ll always be a foreigner in Azia. No chance for me to blend in :slight_smile: .

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Iโ€™d consider language actually an argument for LA since youโ€™d only need one (well two) to get conversational access to the entire continentโ€ฆ

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SEA is just more affordable and perhaps culturally western people find it more interesting because itโ€™s way more different from where they come from.

South America for me is definitely for amazing nature and a lot of outdoorsy stuff which SEA is not comparable on. Especially because of the Andes running right through the continent. Patagonia is amazing and there is nothing anywhere else in the world like that.

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@grum 8yr

My main reasons for SEA is the fact that it is cheaper, safer and has better infrastructure when it comes to the Internet. Even though many cities/countries in Asia have bad Internet, you can jump on a plane for as little at $30 sometimes and jet off to a large city if I need to get back to reality.

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Flying around Latin America is ridiculously expensive due to lack of budget airlines, and trains arenโ€™t generally an option which leaves crazy long bus rides. Not the most comfortable or convenient. Plus some of the recent history in LA isnโ€™t the most welcoming. I would have liked to have seen more when I was living in Colombia but it was cheaper to fly to Europe than to most countries in LA.

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@oskar 8yr

Thatโ€™s interesting. Flying at least in south america is expensive, but everybody complains in south america that flying to Colombia is very expensive :slight_smile: I dont know if its a problem with Colombia, local taxes or something else. For example i bought a flight ticket from Uruguay to Madrid for 790 dollars. Montevideo - Bogota was 830 dollarsโ€ฆ
I think that flight costs and lack of infrastructure are two main problems in the region, but also dont forget that south america alone is bigger than europe and SEA combined geographically speaking which makes these problems worseโ€ฆ

What about language issues? have you had problems with english in LA?

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Personally, I speak Spanish so language is generally not an issue for me in the Americas.

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@kathrynoh 8yr

Iโ€™m Australian so SEA makes more sense in terms of distance and cost for travel.

Still, even though Iโ€™m spending a bit of time in SEA at the beginning of 2016, Iโ€™d much prefer Europe and other parts of Asia (Japan, Korea, etc).

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How do we solve housing for digital nomads?

 

by @levelsio 4yr 4 years ago  | 61 comments

Thereโ€™s been a lot of discussion on this recently.

Nomads usually stay in hostels, hotels and short-term apartments. But itโ€™s all not very optimal.

Iโ€™ve heard people suggest getting funding and building a network of houses you can stay at for a subscription price (e.g. Bruno Haid is working on that).

I donโ€™t want do physical stuff, so Iโ€™m thinking of building a platform around making housing better for nomads.

What are the housing problems nomads face? And how can we solve them with products/services?

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App/tool/service for nomads to bring things from another country?


by @brmolin 4yr 4 years ago  | 4 comments

I vaguely remember hearing about such a service before, but Iโ€™m drawing a blank on the name. Basically I left my tablet on a connecting flight in Europe, right before my main flight to Thailand. They have my tablet and are willing to ship it out for me, but people have warned me thereโ€™s a big risk of it getting โ€œlost in the mailโ€ if I ship something expensive like that to Thailand.

Iโ€™m wondering if thereโ€™s a service or community, where I can find a nomad whoโ€™s in Europe/heading to Thailand soon, so I can have it shipped to them in Europe and pay them to ferry it down here for me? I met someone in Budapest a ways back who had built something for this type of use-case, but I canโ€™t remember the name of it. Any help would be appreciated!

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Are there any nomads from India?

 

in India by @ankitdas123 5yr 5 years ago  | 56 comments

I have seen a lot of posts from different people across the world, but not even a single post from someone in India, who has been a nomad, either living within the country or traveling to another one.

Would definitely love to hear stories from such people. We are a couple traveling as social nomads who are trying to bridge the gap between the rural and urban societies in India. We have started out very humble and do not have much resources, so looking out for help from the community.

Ankit & Rishika
Around Love and Life

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How is Sicily for digital nomads?


by @gaelm 5yr 5 years ago  | 15 comments

Hi all, I was looking for a cool spot in Southern Europe for winter and Iโ€™m considering Sicilyโ€ฆ Have you ever been there? If yes, how was your experience? If not, why?
thanks!

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How is Bari, Italy for digital nomads?


in Bari , Italy by @mitch_dina 5yr 5 years ago  | 7 comments

Greetings!
Does anyone have experience in Bari, Italy please? We are thinking of going from Dubrovnik, Croatia to Bari by boat in mid-March. Has anyone taken a boat across? Is it nice or can it be choppy? (We are trying to avoid planes, to reduce our carbon footprint, so adding more surface travel.) Also, any info you might be able to offer about Bari and the surrounds? Next step will likely be trains up Italy as the Spring progresses.

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How is Mauritius for digital nomads?


in Mauritius by @wakkos 5yr 5 years ago  | 14 comments

Hello all,

Iโ€™m planning on spending a couple of month in Mauritius Island and even when Iโ€™ve been there for a week, never rented or worked there.

Does anyone here has tips or experience to share about Mauritius?

Cheers!

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Best way to connect with "local" nomads using Nomadlist?


by @migueltic 5yr 5 years ago  | 4 comments

Hi, Iโ€™ve seen that Nomad List offers different options that could work for connecting with other nomads that are in the same place as me (forum, Slack, user maps, matches and maybe even more options I havenโ€™t seen), but Iโ€™m not sure what is the best/recommended way to use all these options.

Should I use all of them? Start with a message in the forum and/or Slack?

Sending private messages to a lot of people feels a little bit โ€œaggressiveโ€. And matches are not based on current location if I understood it correctly.

By the way, I just arrived at Budapest :slight_smile:

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