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Living in one EU country with a residence from another EU country?


by @robetus | 4yr  | 8 comments

I really thought this had already been asked on here but couldnโ€™t find anything specific. Apologies if it has been asked before and a link would be greatly appreciated. Iโ€™m a US citizen and if I have a residence permit for one Western European country that states I only have to live in the country for 6 months out of the year can I live in another European country for the other 6 months. I plan on EU country hoping every other 6 months to avoid becoming a resident of more than one country.

Is anyone doing this now?

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@jruz | 4yr

As from my experience thereโ€™s no border control so thereโ€™s no way for them to know where you are at the moment.
That doesnโ€™t mean is โ€œlegalโ€. I asked about this in Germany and they told me you can go to any country, and you get granted automatically a tourist visa for 2 weeks,after that you should go back to your permit country.
After those 2 weeks you are required to register your self as a resident, so you need a rent contract, and pay for the medical insurance.
Sine they donโ€™t have a way to know when you arrived you just need to keep in mind that if something happens, you just say youโ€™re a tourist and you arrived a few days ago. Youโ€™ll be fine.
SWIM has a Spanish residency permit but spends most of the time in Berlin :stuck_out_tongue:

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@them | 4yr

What I donโ€™t exactly understand is what you mean with becoming a โ€œresidentโ€. I am not an expert but the EU is not at all โ€œlike the United Statesโ€โ€ฆ every country has its own system of dealing with residency.

In most EU countries, you need to register with the local authorities when moving to a place and planning to stay for a longer period (usually 3 months). In Germany for example, you are supposed to register at the town hall within 2 weeks when moving in a place. In Denmark the same, when you rent a place officially and plan on staying more than 3 months you need to register with the local authority. In France however you are not legally obliged to register, although not sure what about non-EU citizens.

However this is only the registering/resident part โ€“ the tax question is by far more complex. In Denmark or Germany for example, you will automatically also become a tax resident. And usually if you stay more than 6 months in the country, you have to pay taxes in that country.

An additional level of complexity is the social security and the EU mandatory health insurance. If you become resident in for example Denmark or Germany, you will also adhere to their health insurance schemeโ€ฆ

All in all I think it would be better to check the country you plan on going to, if you really want to move around every 6 months. If you have a business in the EU, it might be a lot less hassle to just stick with one country and move around as a โ€œtouristโ€ and simply not registering. Although this sometimes limit the apartments you can rent. In Belgium for example the landlord will require you to register with the authorities, as he/she will otherwise pay increased taxes โ€“ However if you register there, you will also become a tax residentโ€ฆ. Trickyโ€ฆ

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@mule5 | 4yr

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, or accountant, and I am not giving any advice, merely also seeking this same information I am sharing with sources. Call me out on anything I have wrongly interpreted, as I would also like to be in the know,correct and legal as well.


INFORMATION FOR EU NATIONALS - Reporting requirements by country for short stays, less than 3 months.

In most EU countries, you need to register with the local authorities when moving to a place and planning to stay for a longer period (usually 3 months).

I think that reporting also includes shorter stays per this link, choose a country:

Updated : 28/02/2017

Reporting presence for short stays (<3 months)
Some EU countries require you to report your presence to the relevant authorities (often the town hall or local police station) within a reasonable period of time after arrival and may impose a penalty, such as a fine, if you fail to do so.

All you need to report your presence as EU national is your identity card or passport; if you are accompanied by family members who are not EU nationals, they will need a passport. You should not have to pay any fees. If you are staying in a hotel, it is usually enough to fill in a special form - the hotel will take care of the rest.

For example:

Spain

For stays of less than 3 months, EU nationals are not required to report their presence, or register with the authorities, whatever the reasons for their stay in Spain.

Germany

Exception for short stays
If you are moving into an apartment or a house, for up to 3 months, there is no obligation to notify the registration authority.

this exception above is different advice in the thread!

Italy

EU citizens and their family members do not need to report their presence for the first 3 months after arriving in Italy.

If the person concerned has not reported their presence, it is presumed that they will stay in Italy for more than three months, unless otherwise indicated.

Now it getโ€™s trickier if you donโ€™t want any of these countries to consider you to be a TAX RESIDENT. Usually itโ€™s 183 days in a country, but it depends on the country, as to when the country will consider you a TAX RESIDENT and want you to pay taxes on income from earnings in that country.

Longer Stays - > 3 months:

During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

Reporting presence isnโ€™t registering for residence - itโ€™s an important distinction

Using the links in my previous reply, for example for Italy:
http://www.expat.hsbc.com/1/2/hsbc-expat/expat-experience/expat-finances/global-tax-navigator#!/IT

Residence status for tax purposes
An individual is considered resident for income tax purposes if, for the greater part of the tax year, they satisfy any of the following conditions:

  • Their habitual abode is in Italy.
  • The centre of their vital interests is located in Italy.
  • They are registered at the Office of Records of the Resident Population in Italy.
    Italian citizens who move their residence for tax purposes to countries considered to be tax havens (โ€œblack listโ€ countries) are deemed to be tax resident in Italy in all cases, unless they provide specific evidence of their non-resident status.

http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/ID/Italy-Overview

According to the Italian tax law, both Italian residents and non-resident individuals are subject to taxation in Italy, but on a different basis.

Which income will be taxed in Italy?

  • Living in Italy? You must pay tax on your worldwide income there. (criteria: you are in the Population Registry as having lived there for at least 183 consecutive days over a 12-month period or your life is centred there)
  • Living in Italy for less than 183 consecutive days over a 12-month period? You pay tax only on the income you earned in Italy.
  • Income from other EU countries? Check you never pay tax twice on the same income.

If you are not considered a Tax Resident, staying less than the 183 days noted above, and have outside income, you wonโ€™t be taxed in Italy.

Non-tax resident individuals
Tax non-resident individuals are subject to PIT (IRPEF) only on โ€˜income producedโ€™ in Italy (i.e. employment income related to the work activity performed in Italy). Therefore, the foreign incomes are not relevant to the purposes of taxation in Italy.

All this being said, itโ€™s a difficult situation to consider all the countries various tax schemes and compliance. Itโ€™s a full time job to decipher and figure out what the liabilities are to make sure you are legal. We donโ€™t intend to be a tax resident in the US or any country in 2017. None of our income is produced locally in country we are visiting for than than 183 days.

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@adamnowek | 4yr

Itโ€™s hard to say without knowing what country you are legally a resident in and what visa type you hold for that country, but according to the European Union:

Concerning free movement, third country nationals with a long-stay visa are put on the same footing as third country nationals holding valid residence permits: They will be able to move freely for up to three months in any six-month period within the territories of the other Schengen states.

So basically: sort of, but not the way you were thinking (but if anyone has any up-to-date information from the EU regarding third-country nationals, Iโ€™m happy to be corrected!). Prior to becoming a dual citizen, I held only Canadian citizenship and had a visa for the Netherlands that allowed me to freely look for work and/or freelance. The conditions of that visa were stated clearly to me: I can find as much (or as little) work as I want to in the Netherlands, but, as I was not a European citizen at the time, I was emphatically not permitted to just pick up and go to another country. This was a bit of an issue for me at the time, as my partner had moved to Brussels and I was trying to find work there as well. Logically enough, a Dutch visa only lets you work and be a resident in Dutchland :wink: As a result, I was informed by both Dutch and Belgian authorities that I was allowed to spend up to three months out of the last six in the same member state.

I would avoid making like-for-like comparisons between the EU/Schengen/EEA states and the United States, as it really isnโ€™t the same if you are not a citizen). Being a resident in Country A doesnโ€™t mean that living in Country B would make you a resident of the latter: it means you have violated the terms of your visa and could risk deportation. Considering you arenโ€™t a European citizen, itโ€™s best not to try your luck!

Itโ€™s also worth considering that things like โ€œtrying to get some kind of welfareโ€ is actually the right of anyone who has a valid permit to actually reside in the country theyโ€™re living in. If youโ€™re earning money and paying taxes for government programmes in a European country, then you should be registered legally at an address so that you can receive any benefits that you would be entitled to (like ecocheques in Belgium or vakantiegeld in the Netherlands) based the taxes taken from your income.

But, again, I think we could probably help a lot more if we knew about what country youโ€™re aiming to be a resident in. Iโ€™m no immigration lawyer, but I can at least offer my past experience as a non-European!

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@almoehi | 4yr

The following is not a legal / tax advice. Iโ€™m not a lawyer or accountant, but I have discussed related things regularly with my accountant and my answer below is based on this.

The question is, are you going to earn money (eg working, equity, real estate โ€ฆ) within any country you plan to go?
If not, there are no taxes to pay. Itโ€™s basically the same as visiting.

If yes, it depends in which country you are considered โ€œtax residentโ€. And this is a very vague definition. The official EU page says, youโ€™re tax resident in the country where you spend >= 6 months per year. Now even though you have determined where youโ€™re tax resident this doesnโ€™t automatically mean that you do not need to pay taxes in another EU country. There is no unified tax regulation within the EU and you have to check this for each specific case individually.

Now youโ€™re also US citizen. As far as I know, the US is the only country which considers you tax resident in the US simply based on the fact youโ€™re born in the US - regardless where you live or earn your money.
If Iโ€™m right on this, I think that makes the whole story even more complex, so you would have to check the tax regulations between USA vs. Particular EU country.

BTW Does your permit include working permit as well?

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@robetus | 4yr

Hi almoehi, thanks for your reply but I donโ€™t want to get off topic from my original post. Taxes and income aside, I just wanted to know if anyone has any information on residing in a different European country than the one they have a residence permit for. I want to know more about the regulations on this within the EU. I can of course just ask the country I want to stay in for a while but I just wanted to see if anyone had first hand experience with it here. Iโ€™m not planning on spending anymore than 6 months in one EU country.

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@robetus | 4yr

I was speaking of all the Western European countries no specific country. Iโ€™ll double check but I think most Western countries wouldnโ€™t consider you a tax resident if you stay less than 6 months. Thanks for the link by the way, very helpful.

I see the Euro using EU countries as almost like the United States now so I think if you have a residence that only requires half a year in a single one of those countries you can go into and live for a while in other European counties. What would they do? Kick you out and tell you to go back to your residential country? I mean I guess if I was causing some kind of nuisance or tried to get some kind of welfare, but I doubt they would bother any other way if I only wanted to stay a short while.

The borders between Western European counties are now almost non-existent. I remember flying from Germany to Italy in 2004 and my passport got stamped and checked. I did the same exact trip in 2015 and I just got off a plane and onto a bus into the city, there was no check at all and Iโ€™m not even an EU citizen.

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@mule5 | 4yr

I am a US citizen, but also an Italian citizen (so no visa or permits required to work). If you have a residence permit, you might be obliged to report your income to that country. Out of curiosity, which country, as I know Germany and others have different rules on reporting income while a resident.
*** not tax advice *** I think as long as you donโ€™t become a โ€œtaxโ€ resident in any of those European countries, you wonโ€™t be obligated to report income and pay tax in those countries. Each country has different rules as to what is used to consider becoming a tax resident.
Both of these companies have extensive tax summaries for many countries:
http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/uk/taxsummaries/wwts.nsf/ID/PPAA-85RDKF
http://www.expat.hsbc.com/1/2/hsbc-expat/expat-experience/expat-finances/global-tax-navigator#!/IT

I am also interested to know if others are doing this as well.

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I'm a dual citizen of America and France with my resident based in the America. Can I travel to the EU using my French passport?

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How to get a UK residence address without renting/buying?


by @pavel_maximov | 7mo 7 months ago | 17 comments

Background:
Iโ€™m an EU national IT specialist, recently decided to become a digital nomad. I just left my permanent job in Germany and opened a UK based LTD (for a better taxation) to start a new career as remote working IT contractor. I also want to become a UK resident and pay personal income tax there BUT I donโ€™t want to rent/buy a place because I have no interest in physically living in the UK, as a nomad I will be traveling abroad 100% of the time.

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Has anyone created a list of co-living spaces around the world?


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Iโ€™m a big believer in co-living but Iโ€™m finding hard to find all the options available in different cities.

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General range of cost?

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by @analogmario | 2yr 1 year ago | 0 comments

Hi, Iโ€™m new here.
I am moving out forever.
So I am going to move to another country my residence.
But, in the new country I donโ€™t plan to spend more than 90 days a year for sure, at least itโ€™s not the plan for the first years.

But I want to be sure that my tax residence is in my new country, even if I spend less than 90 days a year.
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by @hello513 | 2yr 2 years ago | 5 comments

Hi!
Iโ€™m doing research about how I can register as a self-employed to another country, and I want to ask for some advice.

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How do you manage your location independent business as a Nomad Entrepreneur?


by @vzablocky | 3yr 2 years ago | 3 comments

Iโ€™d like to invite nomad entrepreneurs in this topic to discuss what are the challenges you face in filing taxes, insurance and banking complications, while travelling and running your business remotely.

Please share your thoughts! I would be happy to help!

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Living in Dubai for a month. Tips?


in Dubai, United Arab Emirates by @cyrilgupta | 3yr 2 years ago | 2 comments

Heya!
I have to be in Dubai by end of the month to finish the formation of my company and residency etc. Iโ€™ve stayed at hotels earlier, but that sounds pretty impractical considering I will be living there nearly for a month.

Anyone got any tips about renting a short-stay apartment for a month? Maybe even a few leads?

What about living in Dubai? I will be working hard, but I donโ€™t want to be bored out of my mind. Places I can hang out, things I can do?

Please share :slight_smile:

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Whatโ€™s a good European call & SMS forwarding service?


by @adrienbetweets | 3yr 2 years ago | 5 comments

Hi all

What do you guys use for receiving both sms & calls on a European phone number?

Iโ€™d like to have a phone number that does not change for at least 1 or 2 years.

I did my homework & found this thread but itโ€™s only about US services so I donโ€™t think itโ€™s relevant: Whatโ€™s a good US call and SMS forwarding service?
Also, I looked into Google Hangout but it doesnโ€™t support European phone numbers.

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Has anyone from EU bought tickets at Ticketmaster.com and Fandango.com for USA


by @gmisjura1 | 3yr 2 years ago | 2 comments

Hey everyone,

I got into situation when nothing really helped me, and now searching for alternatives.

Two web site where I was trying to buy tickets for Tribeca film festival and just cinema do not let me to buy tickets and the websites are quite big -

Ticketmaster.com
Fandango.com

My question is , does anyone know alternative where I could buy tickets for example Madisson Square show and AMC Cinema screening. Eventbite worked fine for example with European card.

Best,

Georgius.

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