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What is a fair hourly rate for a junior remote developer?


by @sungwoncho6yr  | 16 comments

I am a junior level web developer with 1 yr experience. At the moment, I have some options to work remotely for agencies, and need to negotiate hourly rate.

Having never worked remotely before, I want to know how much the standard rate is for juniors. I am a full-stack developer using either Rails or Meteor.

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@yanokwa6yr

Donโ€™t charge hourly, it bins you as a replaceable cog, leaves a lot of money on the table, and gets you lower quality clients.

I understand this might not work for everyone, but Iโ€™m a huge fan of charging clients based on the value I provide โ€“ not just writing software, but helping them solve their business problems.

patio11 on why and how he started billing by value
https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/consulting_1

step-by-step guidance on how to raise your rates

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@toshuo6yr

If itโ€™s contract work, then about $50/hour for a junior developer. The thing is, itโ€™s difficult to know what someone means by โ€œjuniorโ€ level. Thereโ€™s a huge spectrum of skill between โ€œcan fizzbuzzโ€ and employable at a tech company.

Whatโ€™s your github username?

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I am not sure if GitHub account is an accurate measure of a coderโ€™s level but my github name is sungwoncho. Am I junior enough?

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@toshuo6yr

At the very least it shows that youโ€™ve been really active and youโ€™ve had contributions accepted to forem and avatar, albeit small things. Just having spent like 5 minutes looking at your github presence, I would feel at least confident that you know something about Meteor, especially. If you doubled down and made some larger contributions it would help more.

Assuming you have the basic CS fundamentals and can pass a technical interview, I think you could get hired as a junior dev by a bay area company. They donโ€™t usually like more jr people as contractors, but there are a lot of companies out there. Iโ€™d try for $50 / hour (or better yet, go on a day rate) and if you have difficulties then take something a bit lower, make a good landing page / blog to highlight your abilities.

FWIW, I got my first job at a SV tech company (~125k/year with bonuses) purely through a game I wrote and put on github. It definitely helped that I used a bunch of technologies they care about.

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I think there are too many factors which can determine that for anyone to give you a definite answer.

Factors which may influence it is your location, your clientโ€™s location, your clients industry, the type of technologies used, where you got the clients (word of mouth / oDesk / previous clientsโ€ฆ), etc.

This article is a few years old, but it gives you an idea of how wide the salary gap is between different countries:

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@toshuo6yr

Those rates are ridiculously low. I suspect those are primarily for people working in non-software companies.

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I can only compare the South African rates as those are the one I have knowledge of. And yes, for South Africa those rates mentioned are a bit on the lower end, but not ridiculous.

In any case, the purpose of the article was to demonstrate how much salaries differ across the world, and not as a reference for what can be earned. The original poster asked a question which has no context in terms of where they are from or where their potential clients are from. Without that information they cannot expect a proper answer.

So even your quote of $ 50 an hour does not mean anything as it does not give any more context.

I can tell you for a fact that you would be hard pressed to find a local programmer in South Africa contracting to a local company earning that sort of money - theyโ€™d have to be some sort of programming god to demand that money.

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@toshuo6yr

Itโ€™s a global talent market.

If someone in a country with poorer rates is English speaking and a demonstrably good dev, why would they work for a local company instead of just working for a US company that hires remotely (e.g. Github, StackOverflow, Automatticโ€ฆ etc)?

And that just goes for a good dev. If theyโ€™re โ€œprogramming godโ€ they can work for a shockingly higher rate, even for a lot of companies that donโ€™t normally tend to hire remotely.

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I agree on the global talent market. It should not matter where you are. In practice however it does not work that way in the majority of cases. Maybe someday it will, but I doubt because there will always be someone will to work cheaper, and someone wanting to pay cheaper.

Without @sungwoncho stating at least where these "agenciesโ€™ are that he is speaking to all one can work on is assumptions and very little fact. If those agencies are located in lets say the Philippines they are probably going to laugh in his face when he starts saying it is a global market and therefore he must be paid $50.

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@toshuo6yr

It should not matter where you are. In practice however it does not work that way in the majority of cases. Maybe someday it will, but I doubt because there will always be someone will to work cheaper, and someone wanting to pay cheaper.

Thatโ€™s not a game that a good dev will play. The problem with competing in a race to the bottom is that you might win! Some people online ask for contractors to clone an entire billion dollar start-up for $400. Those are not the people you should work for.

Just for a point of reference, Iโ€™m a solid mid-level dev and the last remote contract I took was for $1100 / day. It was for a mid-sized profitable company, though, not for a bottom scraping agency in the Philppines. When I was more junior level and in a less desirable tech stack, I charged $50 / hour. In both cases, I had to spend some time looking for clients and not 100% of project proposals I wrote were accepted but most were. YMMV.

Edit: also to clarify, Rails and Meteor are both what I would consider hot skill-sets. Meteor is still a bit new, but with Rails especially, there are a lot of profitable companies willing to pay up for the right talent.

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Where are your clients located though?

That surely makes a massive difference in what they are willing to pay? Why would a South African company, for example, be willing to pay a remote developer $100+ when they can get a very good local developer for ยฑ$30?

And as far as the location of the developer is concerned, employers do take that in mind. As an example look at the salary formula for Buffer, which is arguably one of the more forward-thinking companies in terms of remote work. Even they pay their employees significantly more or less based on their location.

https://open.bufferapp.com/introducing-open-salaries-at-buffer-including-our-transparent-formula-and-all-individual-salaries/

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Where are your clients located though?
That surely makes a massive difference in what they are willing to pay?

I think at a junior level, the clientsโ€™ locations surely have impact on the salary because there are a great deal of undifferentiated supply of talents.

FYI my potential employers at the moment are located in Australia and USA.

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I would suggest you get on job boards for those countries and see what the going rates are for junior developers in each respective country and price yourself according to that.

i would also suggest that if you want to eventually start commanding rates which are higher than average you start doing things which raises your profile. Start blogging, start contributing to open source, get involved in the developer community, look for opportunities to start speaking (start of with code camps, bar camps, local user groups etc and work your way up to larger conferences).

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@jerriep Thanks for your advice. Sydney has some great developer communities. I will try to get more involved.

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@toshuo6yr

To answer your first question: The US, China, and Canada.

To answer your second: In China, developers can be found for even less than in South Africa. Nonetheless, they sometimes import talent from Silicon Valley and in the case of Baidu have even opened up a local office in the bay area to hire very expensive engineers. Clearly enough of the people who really are good devs are salary sensitive enough that businesses canโ€™t get all the work they want done locally. Or perhaps theyโ€™ve found it cheaper to go with the higher priced engineer. One Beijing startup where I worked had not only hired an engineer from the bay area, but also a designer and a marketer from Sweden!

Iโ€™m familiar with Bufferโ€™s blog post and have met their founder at meetups in SF. I wouldnโ€™t work there. Anyway, this thread is getting a bit long and Iโ€™m not sure if itโ€™s helpful for the OP so Iโ€™m going to stop here.

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@diminko6yr

This is my 4th month working as junior rails developer in Poland and I earn $5.58 / h. I hope to become a middle level developer in a month and then my hourly rate will increase to $10.28. But I am sure that in the other European countries the salary will be much greater than that. :smile:

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Read and participate in 14,118 discussions on Nomad List

Suggested topics

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Where should I set up my company as a remote worker?


by @beloruchka1yr 1 year ago | 7 comments

Iโ€™m looking for any recommendations for services or people others have used to get answers on the best place to set up their businesses based on their personal circumstances.

Leaning towards Singapore after a ton of research, but would really like some concrete advice before jumping in.

Appreciate it!

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Bali to focus on attracting remote workers when the island reopens for tourism


by @levelsio1yr 1 year ago | 0 comments

When reopening for tourism, Bali says it will focus on attracting remote workers to choose the island as their workplace:

"We will focus on a new pattern of how Bali is not just for leisure, but indeed to work in Bali as well"

thebalisun.com/bali-tourism-will-target-digital-nomads-and-those-who-work-online/

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Any attorneys working remotely?


by @rohitsn1yr 1 year ago | 3 comments

Transactional Attorney with a focus on US Immigration. Burnt out doing the law firm thing. Trying to leverage skill to get on this digital nomad tip. Love the traveling experience, hostels, seeing new places, new cocktails etc etc.

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What do you use to work together remotely?


by @artofwarbiz2yr 1 year ago | 6 comments

What do you use to work together remotely with your team?

I know Slack, Hipchat and Hall.

Which ones do you guys use and why?

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What have been your biggest challenges working remotely in your team?


by @wanderer2yr 1 year ago | 2 comments

My interest in DN lifestyle started when half of our company have been taking 1 month for remote work @ Ko Samui. It was truly cool but we observed quite some communication challenges. Communication seemed just โ€œriskierโ€ when online.

What were your worst situations caused by misunderstanding while communicating online with your teammates? What do you do to avoid misunderstandings?

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What's the first step now that I can work remotely?


by @mariaplslourdes2yr 2 years ago | 4 comments

Hi everyone and nice to e-meet you!
finally, after so long I found a job that allows me to work remotely.
But now? Do you have any practical advice that I can use to approach this new world?
In particular, I have to put my tax situation in order, do you know a good tax advisor from whom I can ask for advice? (Iโ€™m Italian but I live in Franceโ€ฆI donโ€™t know how long it will beโ€ฆ) )
Beyond that, any advice is welcome.
Thank you!
Maria

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Recommendations for UK/Scotland accountants that understand remote businesses?


by @eduardoyi2yr 2 years ago | 1 comment

Looking for recommendations for reliable accountants who understand how remote businesses with off-shore freelancers and clients work. Thanks!

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What's the best CRM/system for managing remote work opportunities?


by @panoramica3yr 2 years ago | 3 comments

Iโ€™m currently doing some work through Upwork, but itโ€™s sporadic and Iโ€™m keen to get more active on other platforms like Freelancer, Toptal, CodeMentor, Fiverr etc

Currently Iโ€™m managing leads in a Google sheet. Basically itโ€™s just a list of projects I pitched for, how much I bid, what I did differently from the last pitch/bid, how much time went by before I got a offered a job etc.

Iโ€™m not actively following up anybody, and Iโ€™ve in fact โ€˜lostโ€™ a few jobs where the client was keen, but then disappeared without a trace. I guess I need to keep in touch with those people to ensure that they remain focussed on our agreementโ€ฆ

Iโ€™m also keen to take on more small projects concurrently, without dropping the ball on any of them.

Iโ€™ve done a quick Google and turned up a few names including Salesforce, Zoho, Nutshell, HighRise, Base, Nimble, etc etc. But testing out all these products isnโ€™t all that appealing, so I thought Iโ€™d ask here first :slight_smile:

Ideally Iโ€™d like something that integrates with remote job boards in some way.

Feature list

Iโ€™ve done some research and currently have this feature list:

Proposal building & tracking

  • Compile proposals from snippets - technologies, past projects
  • Quickly pull together a realistic/client friendly quote
  • Test and measure different approaches
  • Beat proposal deadlines while maintaining quality
  • Fine tune pitch material to bid more quickly and win more work โ€“ templates
  • Store history about past projects involving common needs and technological solutions
  • Learn which proposal content is working, and which is not

Lead generation and client management (CRM)

  • store info about regular clients
  • track remote projects which Iโ€™ve pitched for
  • Remote Job Board integration
  • search multiple job sites for keywords
  • track projects across multiple remote platforms โ€“ API integration / message alert/response

Project Management & Scheduling

  • Break projects down into granular tasks
  • Gantt chart to visualise overlapping jobs
  • Calendar to schedule daily work, deadlines, R&D
  • follow up, plan and schedule future work now, rather than once current work has dried up
  • offline reminders via a dedicated Android app
  • time tracking โ€“ to get an idea of true cost, to flag issues to client
  • BitBucket integration

Billing

  • Integration with Xero
  • tracking status of payments, actual payment date vs expected payment clearance date

Marketing

  • Get repeat business
  • Build Word Of Mouth
  • Proactive lead generation
  • Publish proposals as case studies

Cheers,
Dan

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What's the best place to incorporate an online business?

 

by @octave3yr 2 years ago | 63 comments

I have an commerce website. We get around 1000 orders per month and this is going to get quite a bit bigger in next few years.

I am British. I live in Thailand.
Im not allowed to majority own a Thai business and small foreign entrepreneurs are not really welcome. So i need an offshore company.

I need PayPal and an ecommerce internet merchant account. Also looking at alternatives like worldpay. 2checkout etc

Does PayPal need me to be a resident to the country i register my account to? Are there complications being a non resident to get other payment solutions?

Apparently in Hong Kong you need 2 years trading history to get an Internet Mechant Account and they generally turn their noses up at those with less than $1m(us) a year turn over. Singapore seems a bit easier.

I really want to avoid paperwork and book keeping. I hate it.

So i was looking at Seychelles, Panama, BVI, Belize.

Does anyone have experience with payment providers in these countries?

Most nomads i see donโ€™t really have a high volume of small monthly transactions which i do. Im going around in circles and donโ€™t know where to start.

Ill also need a bank account for business and a personal bank account to pay my salary into

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Affordable way to incorporate in Singapore?


in Singapore by @pras_k3yr 2 years ago | 1 comment

Is there an affordable way to incorporate in Singapore?

I asked an agency and they charge around SG$11000 for the whole package.
Iโ€™d like to find a cheaper option since Iโ€™m just starting out.
Any recommendations?

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Is there a US bank for easily creating new business checking accounts remotely?

 

by @tylertringas3yr 3 years ago | 23 comments

Every accountant is going to tell you that you really should be keeping separate accounts for all your businesses and even projects that may one day become businesses. But in my experience setting up a new account associated with an actual business entity is a pretty annoying process involving an in-person visit to a bank branch, proof of residence in that branchโ€™s region, etc. Has anybody seen a bank that letโ€™s you easily create a simple business checking account online and more importantly that would let you add additional accounts and transfer funds between them?

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Remote worker in Amsterdam: taxes and legal status?


in Amsterdam, Netherlands by @think3yr 3 years ago | 1 comment

Hi all,

I am moving to Amsterdam in January and looking for advice regarding legal status.

I work for a small French company. They agreed to let me move to Amsterdam as a remote worker starting January. :v:

However, they have no business entity and no employee in the Netherlands, so we have no idea how to set up the whole thing legally speaking. Should I remain an employee of the French entity, should I charge them as a consultant/contractor?

Of course, I am looking for a solution that is both simple and with minimum taxes :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Thank you for your help!!
Steph

PS: If you can recommend a good accountant that is competent on the topic, I an happy to pay for the service too!

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Where can I go for remote working while surrounded by nature (ocean waves, mountain, etc)


by @nish3yr 3 years ago | 7 comments

I have this dream scenario in my head, and Iโ€™ve searched for a while without figuring out how I might best achieve it. I donโ€™t need many places, just one or two that I can go back to over and over again. I want to be working on my laptop while being surrounded by nature; for example a place right on the ocean where I can hear the waves crashing and look up and see them, then look back down and go back to work (but it would have to be very close by to achieve this feeling, not a distant sea view).

In itself this might not be so hard but my total list of requirements makes it difficult:

  • Fast internet: at least 20Mbps down with ethernet connection possible.
  • Very close to emergency medical services: so not in the middle of nowhere, and ideally in/very close to a decent size town (I have some medical issues)
  • Not more than ยฃ70/night to stay
  • It doesnโ€™t have to be a residence: it can also be a coworking space that meets all these requirements, and I can stay somewhere else and work at this space

So far I thought of Las Palmas de Gran Canaria: there seem to be some flats with a nice ocean view, although Iโ€™m not sure how close to the ocean they can get. And maybe also Valencia?

Anyway, Iโ€™m not sure if anybody else has had this kind of dream as well. But I would very much appreciate any tips for places I can check out :slight_smile:

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Does anyone plan on applying to the Vermont $10,000 remote work incentive?


by @wagmanben4yr 3 years ago | 5 comments

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vermont-pay-10-000-move-110056645.html

Hello All,
Saw Vermont rolled out an incentive to get more remote workers to live there, Does anyone plan on applying and If so why? Reason Iโ€™m asking is I work for an organization in Tulsa, Ok that wants to also bring in Nomads, and would love to hear your thoughts on what such a plan should look like

Any help would be Awesome!
Ben

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Teaching Music Remotely


by @barrittrebecca4yr 3 years ago | 0 comments

Hello! Does anyone have experience teaching music remotely via Skype or another form of Video Chat?

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Are most digital nomads self employed or remote employees?


by @kfitzgerrell4yr 3 years ago | 2 comments

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Summary

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Do you have a strategy for finding what to do in the city?


by @ifdattic4yr 3 years ago | 12 comments

Anyone want to share their strategy/tips for finding out what to do when you arrive at new location, and/or finding about ongoing events (for example when staying for longer term)?

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Places in Central or South America with a beach for remote working


by @mcdime4yr 3 years ago | 5 comments

Im looking to make my first venture into nomad living this September and keep leaning back towards Bocas del Toro.

Does anyone have experience setting up shop there? Iโ€™m open to other warm weather surf towns as well

Starting a SaaS company that assists the operation of service based industries so being near some other SaaS people would be wonderful. (First time starting a tech company)

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How to get bank statements remotely?


by @hoperto4yr 3 years ago | 12 comments

Greetings!

Me & my gf holding not very strong passports, so have to apply for a visas quite often.
Soon need to make a visa applications from the countries we have no ties with.
The problem is that by the moment of making an applications, a bank statements will be outdated and the banks we currently use donโ€™t send the paper statements internationally. That cause quite a lot of problems with visa applications. (the way i see it now is to open new account in each country, transfer funds to it and wait for 3 months)

Any suggestion on probably some fin tech banking startup where one can both open the account remotely (with using a local mailbox service i suppose) and get a paper statement delivered internationally?
Hope there is a solution to it :slight_smile:

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What problems do you face while working remotely?๐Ÿค”


by @stvbutlr4yr 3 years ago | 0 comments

Hi all,

For those of you who work remotely, I think the community would love to hear about your problems โ€ฆ I know I would.

When working remotely what problems do you face with your day to day work and/or employer(s)? โ€ฆ Please list anything and everything that comes to mind!

  • Ideally, people who have overcome the problem(s) will weigh in with recommendations. :ok_hand:
  • With this information, people who wish to join the nomadic lifestyle can better prepare for the transition from โ€˜office jobโ€™ to โ€˜remote workโ€™. :airplane:๏ธ

Some topics that might trigger some inspiration for reply. :speech_balloon:

  • trust from employer
  • communication
  • project management
  • payment
  • timezones
  • culture/teamwork/colleagues
  • stress/anxiety

Cheers,

Steve

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