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What options are available for a pension plan for remote EU citizens, not registered as freelancers?


by @akisl | 4yr  | 11 comments

Hi people,

Iโ€™m Greek, Iโ€™m now transitioning to fully remote. I think I have solved the first part: Creating a remote legal entity, a business bank account and having health insurance but I donโ€™t know how to solve the pension issue.

As an EU citizen, either your employer contributes X% of your gross salary to the national/private pension funds, or if you are a freelancer you pay the equivalent to the freelancer pension fund of your country, which in many cases is also attached to the national insurance fund.

So as a fully remote person, not registered as an employee or freelancer in any EU country, only having an EU company for invoicing and money transfers, where and how do you contribute to a pension fund for you? And what fund would that be?

Iโ€™m talking about a core pension fund, similar to the one that you would have if you were registered as an employee or freelancer in your country. Not ancillary pension funds offered by insurance companies, as these mostly focus on covering additional aspects that may not be covered by the core pension fund you have and they assume you already have a core pension fund.

Thank you so much for the help.

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@flyonthewall | 4yr

EU pension funds (depends on the country of courseโ€ฆ) are not super secure. They are actually in a situation of deficit at the moment. Iโ€™m surprised that you are not aware of this given that you are Greek. I know that in Portugal there have been pension cuts, basically, your pension is reduced and in some cases even the number of payouts went down from 14 to 12 per year or something like that.

You could create your own pension fund or investment portfolio. Iโ€™d recommend to read one or two books on long term investing like the Bogleheads guide or something like A random walk down wallstreet.

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@akisl | 4yr

Hey,
You are right. I wasnโ€™t speaking about pension funds in failing economies like Greece or Portugal. I was referring to the pension funds of Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and the like.
Thank you for the resources. I will have a look at them.
But could you tell me what is your current setup @wanderingdev and @flyonthewall for example? Do you have your own investment portfolio? and you rely fully on that for later on?

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@wanderingdev | 4yr

Yes, I have all of my own investments that Iโ€™ve been building for the last 25+ years and keep adding to. Being from the US itโ€™s a bit different, but I have a mixture of retirement accounts that I canโ€™t touch until I reach a certain age without paying penalties and brokerage accounts that I can access whenever I want. I would never willingly choose to put my retirement money into an account that is under sole control of any government unless legally obligated to do so. And then I would still do the vast majority of saving in accounts I have full control of.

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@dpt | 4yr

Ask your healthcare provider or your tax advisor about it.

Thereโ€™s a good chance that there are some privat providers that are recognized by your government and you will get tax benefits for using them. At least thatโ€™s how it works in Germany. Maybe ask if you can use other options from within the EU and pick a provider from the countries youโ€™ve mentioned.

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@akisl | 4yr

@dpt Greece isnโ€™t like Germany. Itโ€™s a โ€œpost-sovietโ€ type economy where you have to have the gov pension plan and private insurances not developed at all. This is why Iโ€™m trying to escape from that and create a pension plan somewhere else, disconnected from Greece (even tho I have been paying the gov pension plan for several years already).

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@richardh | 4yr

Pensions make me deeply skeptical, fortunately there are a whole universe of financial products and hard assets to become exposed to.

The pension industry canโ€™t give my father (England, UK) a straight answer after 25+ years of contributions and โ€œsalary sacrificeโ€ over contributions to make up for some company pension pot shortfall/investments that went bad. The only thing they can guarantee is their fees for managing the fund. Funny that. Then thereโ€™s the returns on fixed income products which have been decimated by historically low interest rates, to the point where the UK government now allows you to draw down a percentage of your pension pot and spend it, because annuities are such bad value for money.

Then thereโ€™s the developed worldsโ€™ government entitlement programs, which in the case of America, social security hits the wall in 2020, whereby either taxes will have to be raised to pay for all the old people retiring, or entitlements will have to be cut.

Ultimately it depends where you want to end up, and having a business and money strategy that will get you as near to this as possible. Many people are already working from the beach, so in a way theyโ€™ve already arrived where most people spend a lifetime working towards.

I didnโ€™t really understand the choices people make nor how the market/broader economy fitted into this before I got interested in demographics. Demographics can predict what happens years before it does, because over a lifetime given the right foundation, people follow a predictable earning/spending cycle. Lots of young people being born is the key driver of demand for new goods and services, which the supply side will rise to fill, if it is able to.

People are inflationary, conversely the inverse is true (read, below replacement birth levels).

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@akisl | 4yr

You have a point. The problem is that becoming financially literate for making most of the choices that you need to make when you go fully private, may take more time than I have (and want to devote), I have to read books and spend hours learning stuff that I really donโ€™t enjoy learning.
I tried to go to online investing platforms which make it as easy as managing your Gmail, but they are only available for US citizens, soโ€ฆ itโ€™s very easy to say that, much harder to actually do it.
Plus we donโ€™t really have a โ€œDIY pensionโ€ culture in Europe so the learning curve is even longer.

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@wanderingdev | 4yr

It isnโ€™t that difficult. Choose a balanced mutual fund that automatically adjusts to become more conservative as you get older and set up automatic contributions to it and just let it grow. people make it much harder than it needs to be. read the book the automatic millionaire. itโ€™s old, but the basic principles are the still the same and are applicable no matter where youโ€™re from. Another option is to buy ETFs. This is easily done via an online stock brokerage account.

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@wanderingdev | 4yr

by security, do you mean risk? it depends on what you invest in. it can be as high or low risk as you want, but over the long term, the higher the risk the more youโ€™ll have in 30 years.

personally I like having full control over my money. i would never pay into a system like that if I didnโ€™t have to. trust the govt to keep my money safe? no way in hell. lol

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@wanderingdev | 4yr

Iโ€™m not familiar with how things work in the EU, but why not just open a regular brokerage account and invest that way instead of doing a pension fund? Is there some kind of tax advantage?

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@akisl | 4yr

In a pension fund you donโ€™t have a portfolio and you donโ€™t earn anything. You just contribute and they do their thing for growing the fund. So there is no tax anywhere.

What level of security would these types of investments you mention have?

The EU pension funds are super secure & stable, and they do the investing but without sharing the risk with you. You just know that after 30 years you will get a pension of +/- X euros per month if you contribute a certain amount each month during the period.

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I'm a dual citizen of America and France with my resident based in the America. Can I travel to the EU using my French passport?

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Transactional Attorney with a focus on US Immigration. Burnt out doing the law firm thing. Trying to leverage skill to get on this digital nomad tip. Love the traveling experience, hostels, seeing new places, new cocktails etc etc.

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What do you use to work together remotely with your team?

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My interest in DN lifestyle started when half of our company have been taking 1 month for remote work @ Ko Samui. It was truly cool but we observed quite some communication challenges. Communication seemed just โ€œriskierโ€ when online.

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How to ship bikes from US to Europe?


by @ld | 6mo 6 months ago | 3 comments

Hello,
Iโ€™m preparing to travel again to Europe, but this time I want to bring our bikes. 2 road bikes. Iโ€™ll be traveling from USA to the Milan or Rome airport.

Iโ€™d appreciate hearing your thoughts, experience and tips on traveling with a bike. I plan on being fairly stationary with our location and staying in one spot for 2-3 months, then (hopefully train) to another spot for 3 months, etc. So itโ€™s the initial international flight Iโ€™m most concerned about. But realistically, I think a regional flight will be inevitable with the bikes, too.

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General range of cost?

Anyone bring their bike and glad they did? โ€ฆWish they didnโ€™t?.. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks!

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What's the first step now that I can work remotely?


by @mariaplslourdes | 10mo 10 months ago | 4 comments

Hi everyone and nice to e-meet you!
finally, after so long I found a job that allows me to work remotely.
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Thank you!
Maria

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by @itinerantdev | 1yr 1 year ago | 6 comments

Over the next few weeks Iโ€™m visiting:

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But I have been in Mexico for six weeks and giff gaff emailed and said if I didnโ€™t use my sim in the UK soon they would start charging their normal expensive roaming rates.

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Planning ahead for the winter. Iโ€™ll be in Spain in the Fall and want to go someplace warm for the winter in or near Europe, but not Schengen. Was first thinking Cape Town, but the internet is slow and it is very far. Was also thinking:
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by @panoramica | 1yr 1 year ago | 3 comments

Iโ€™m currently doing some work through Upwork, but itโ€™s sporadic and Iโ€™m keen to get more active on other platforms like Freelancer, Toptal, CodeMentor, Fiverr etc

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in Amsterdam, Netherlands by @think | 2yr 1 year ago | 1 comment

Hi all,

I am moving to Amsterdam in January and looking for advice regarding legal status.

I work for a small French company. They agreed to let me move to Amsterdam as a remote worker starting January. :v:

However, they have no business entity and no employee in the Netherlands, so we have no idea how to set up the whole thing legally speaking. Should I remain an employee of the French entity, should I charge them as a consultant/contractor?

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PS: If you can recommend a good accountant that is competent on the topic, I an happy to pay for the service too!

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by @nish81 | 2yr 1 year ago | 7 comments

I have this dream scenario in my head, and Iโ€™ve searched for a while without figuring out how I might best achieve it. I donโ€™t need many places, just one or two that I can go back to over and over again. I want to be working on my laptop while being surrounded by nature; for example a place right on the ocean where I can hear the waves crashing and look up and see them, then look back down and go back to work (but it would have to be very close by to achieve this feeling, not a distant sea view).

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by @raz | 2yr 2 years ago | 1 comment

The ideal bank will have an easy on-boarding as a European student studying and living in Sweden for a year and is merciful when it comes to sending GBP into the account.
Can anybody recommend a good Swedish bank? :raised_hands:

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Does anyone plan on applying to the Vermont $10,000 remote work incentive?


by @wagmanben | 2yr 2 years ago | 5 comments

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vermont-pay-10-000-move-110056645.html

Hello All,
Saw Vermont rolled out an incentive to get more remote workers to live there, Does anyone plan on applying and If so why? Reason Iโ€™m asking is I work for an organization in Tulsa, Ok that wants to also bring in Nomads, and would love to hear your thoughts on what such a plan should look like

Any help would be Awesome!
Ben

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