Schengen tourist visa - legal to work for home companies?

Question

So I know it’s illegal to work in Europe for European companies without a work visa / permit. I’m also aware of the Germany freelancer visa, which lets you work in Germany legally for 3 years (but I’m not stationing in Germany; I want to hop hop hop). I see many digital nomads programming on the road, making income from American companies on a Schengen tourist visa. Of course this seems fine, since it’s brining American dollars into Europe. But is it legal? Has anyone had experiences / conversations with immigration, or seen this discussed anywhere online? My Google fu fails me here.

mule5 · Accepted Answer

When travelling to Brazil in 2008, from the US, Americans need an expensive Visa, $120 US at that time, each.  They required a bank statement for the visa application, since we wanted a long duration (90 days), showing a “certain” amount of money, to be “enough” to sustain us for the duration of the trip without employment.  We were able to show, and the Boston consulate accepted, a heavily redacted bank statement for our 3 month long trip, as well as a letter from the landlord for the apartment we rented, as being paid for the first month of three.  Never had this problem anywhere else.  Haven’t been to the UK yet, but with my EU passport, there most likely won’t be a problem unless they drop out of the EU.

wanderingdev · Answer

@lefnire  I’ve never shown a bank statement. They just ask me how much money I have available and I tell them I have a few thousand liquid and about $15k in available credit.  So that’s not been an issue.
@Oskar I’ve been in the UK twice in the last 12 months.
@international_man This last time, even with an onward ticket out of the UK and a ticket booked back to the US within 6 months they still questioned me for about 45 minutes.
It was seriously hard not to pretty much say ‘Dude, i can live anywhere in the world. If I’m going to overstay my visa it’s not going to be somewhere so freaking expensive with such shitty weather.  And if I was planning on breaking the law, I would just tell you I was staying for a long weekend to explore London so you’d let me through, and then overstay. I wouldn’t be honest about how long I’m here.’ But I controlled myself. lol

lefnire · Answer

@anigupta your answer addressed my question, I believe. My plan is to work as a US resident (paying taxes in the US), for a US company; however, while traveling on a tourist visa in Europe for 2-3 years. To circumvent the 3month tourist visa bit, I plan to visit SE Asia (or any other non-Schengen visa zone) long enough for the 180-day counter to reset.
In short: USA company, USA resident + taxes; but working ~30h/wk while traveling Europe (at cafes, in the AirBnB, etc - web development). I’m hearing there might be some fuzziness depending on if the work arrangement is 1099 vs W2. I’m also hearing from others it’s totally illegal; which I buy. I’ve met lots of people doing this, they just say “it doesn’t come up” - which makes me pretty nervous.

nomadtax · Answer

If you are worried about the border guards, simply don’t talk to them. There are many EU countries where US, Canadian and Australians can enter using the EU citizens automated machines. Finland is an example.
Also, for those worried about the UK border, simply register here and you can use the EU citizens machines (completely avoiding the human border guards).
https://www.gov.uk/registered-traveller
As for the legality of working in the EU under a tourist visa, this depends on the country you are in. Some allow tourists to work with very few restrictions (even local jobs) while others do not even allow regular business trips without documentation. The risk of getting caught is pretty much nil though so I wouldn’t worry about it.

anigupta · Answer

@lefnire I am not clear on your question. Are you asking about freelancing for a European company, while travelling in Europe on a Schengen tourist visa? Technically, if you are in any country with the intention of working rather than what your visa states you can do, you’d be in a bind.
However, this is how I understand it (being a remote worker for many years now): if you are a remote worker, and not a full-time/permanent employee with a company anywhere in the world, as long as you are getting paid in your home country, where you are a resident and pay taxes, you should be fine. As long as you are a contract worker with any company in the world, and get paid in your home country, then there should be no problems with the law of the country you are travelling in. However, if you are in that country to work onsite with their team, instead of travelling or doing what your visa allows you to, then you can get into trouble.

joutazo · Answer

I’ve definitely been hassled at UK border control. The first time I was entering with a group of remote workers, and they guy in front of me said that we were “working while traveling the world”. They pulled the whole group aside and questioned us for a long time. Then next time I entered the UK a few weeks later, I wasn’t expecting any hard questions, and thought I would just say I was “traveling for pleasure” like I always say in other countries. The immigration officer asked me what I do for income, and I said “I’m a programmer” she asked me point blank if I was planning to do work while in the UK. It was a little bit tricky to dodge that one and not make her suspicious that I was violating the terms of a tourist visa. I almost thought she wasn’t going to let me in. From now on, I think I’ll say “I work for a company in California as a programmer”. That should avoid immigration officials misinterpreting my situation or thinking that I’m seeking illegal work in the country.

wanderingdev · Answer

The fact that you can’t tell them you’re working just shows that it isn’t legal. The plan outlined will work, I’ve been doing it for years. But that still doesn’t make it legal, and that was the question. OP, unless you get a work visa, no matter who you are working for or where you are getting paid, doing any kind of work while on a tourist visa is illegal and could potentially lead to problems.  Now realistically, it isn’t an issue because most countries don’t care as long as you’re not taking a local job. The UK is the only place that hassles me.

anigupta · Answer

@lefnire your plan should work. I don’t think you’ll run afoul of the laws of the country you’re travelling in. You may need to check on the 1099/W2 legality with a CPA. In my case, I work for a multi-national corporate remote team as a consultant. I am a business owner in my home country, which is where I get paid, and pay my taxes. All I need is a decent internet connection. I can choose to travel year long all over the world and work out of coworking spaces etc., as long as I am not getting paid in the country I am a temporary visitor.

anigupta · Answer

I should add here, if asked by immigration authorities at any entry point, you shouldn’t say you are there to travel AND work remotely. You are technically not allowed to work when on a tourist visa. But it is not possible for them to prove you did any work, esp when you are a remote worker.
You should also check your US tax and residency requirements. US has a tax exemption provision if you are not living there 330 out of 365 days. It has many caveats though.

wanderingdev · Answer

oh, and the best part of this last entry was that the guy wanted to know the names and exact dates of everywhere I’d been for the last 6 months.  When I told him I could list countries but not dates he was all “When I go on holiday I know exactly where I’ve been and exactly what dates I went.” My response was “I’ve been to 12 countries in the last 6 months and multiple cities in each country and I just don’t have the memory for that.”  That kinda shut him up.

wanderingdev · Answer

yep. i just had 10 days free between house sits and I’d have liked to have hopped a flight somewhere warmer and cheaper, but I was worried that they wouldn’t let me back in so I was stuck here.

wanderingdev · Answer

getting into the UK if you are in any way a non typical traveler is a nightmare. i’ve been stopped and questioned a couple times now. to the point where it’s really my least favorite place to visit now. i only come here now if I have a house sit. otherwise just better to avoid it. it’s too expensive anyway.

lefnire · Answer

@wanderingdev What kind of response do you usually have to quell the brits? I imagine they look at a bank statement and think “hmm, there’s income…” which is a tough bush to beat around. Totally understood if that’s something you’re not comfortable discussing.

jb510 · Answer

FWIW, had similar experience crossing into Canada.  The first time went like this:
“Do you have any money?”, “You mean like in my pocket?”, “No, do you have savings?”. “Well, yes… I have income from my own business, have cash, have credit cards and investments”.  That ended the conversation and they had me move on.
Now I skip the “You mean in my pocket?” snarky rhetorical question…

wanderingdev · Answer

no. it is not legal to work while on a tourist visa in europe.

travelmore · Answer

UK is the worst. Immigration treats you like a criminal and just grill you.

harris · Answer

They have a “self employed” residency visa in Spain as well as a non-lucrative visa. On the latter, you would need to show income of €2500 a month or savings of at least €25000 I believe.
Once you have a legal visa from one schengen country you can travel to the others legally.
If you’re hop hop hopping, you could try to hop “out” of schengen for 3 months out of any 6 that you’re there for. Plenty of non-schengen neighbors to visit as well. This would be a tourist visa.
FWIW, I  disagree with wanderingdev. If I legitimately travel to anywhere in the world for a week, a month, or up to 90 days, I can keep my job back in the states and work remotely. There’s no way to monitor that and the “no work” aspect of tourist visas is clearly about not being able to work in the country you’re visiting, for a company there.

flyonthewall · Answer

@whereskristin Although I think you are spot on in terms of the interpretation of the law in most countries, oftentimes at border control, it is the individual immigration officer who gets to make the call.
In this case, saying that you work online might lead to a followup question like “Are you planning to work online while in X country?”. To which I would not like to lie in most circumstances… at the same time I also don’t want to be at the mercy of the immigration officer who might interpret this in whatever way he likes.
I prefer to avoid this line of questioning so to a question like “What do you do for a living?” I would reply with “I run X type of business”. It could be solely an online business but I don’t need to say that and usually this is satisfying enough for most people.

lefnire · Answer

@anigupta that’s the ticket right there! Exactly the setup I’m planning. The strange bit is I can’t find any actual  hard facts on said scenario. Have you ever been questioned at airport immigration? Sort of “I see by your bank statements you’re making income; but you’re applying for a tourist visa, what gives?” I have a hunch everything will be just fine; just wondering if there’s any concrete anecdotes / documents out-n-about.

international_man · Answer

@wanderingdev I actually posted something in the onward ticket thread earlier today, but I too am getting questioned more and more by UK immigration. I had an actual onward ticket (to Thailand), but that wasn’t good enough. They did state that I must have a onward ticket to my country of residence and also asked for me to prove where I lived (which I didn’t state in the other thread – thankfully I had my old Hong Kong ID card which passed their sniff test!). Argh!

lefnire · Answer

Great info, lots to chew on. Thanks @anigupta!

anigupta · Answer

Curious to know. What kind of hassles have you faced in the UK?

oskar · Answer

How many times have you traveled to the UK in a year? if you travel once a year do they still give you trouble entering the country???

lightmotif · Answer

I would ask your potential internship sponsor what kind of visa you need – some countries don’t allow volunteers under a tourist visa but I think Spain does – but you still might qualify for a special student visa that gives you extra time. Otherwise, do leave the Schengen zone before the end of 90 days – it’s too risky to over-stay, but yes, there are still countries in Europe who are not part of Schengen.

whereskristin · Answer

I’ve always thought that if you’re working online on your computer that you can pretty much work from anywhere. I thought that work visas only applied to physical work in the country, getting a job somewhere whether it’s a restaurant, yoga studio or multinational corporation. Every time I enter a country like Canada or somewhere in the EU, if they ask me what I do for work I just tell them I work online. No one has ever asked for a work permit for that in over 10 years.

whereskristin · Answer

The bottom line is that entry to a country is completely at the discretion of that border agent. No one, even immigration attorneys, can tell you what to say with complete certainty. I don’t think that lying could ever be good advice in these situations (or in life in general). It would be pretty rare and bad luck for someone to be turned away from the border as a tourist just because they have the capability to work on their laptop. Maybe there is some risk but I think it’s better to be straight forward. Many times you won’t even be asked anything and they just stamp your passport.

oskar · Answer

yeah i thought USA was bad when trying to enter the country. But the UK is in a whole new level

lia9255 · Answer

I’m in school and have an opportunity to do a 2-month (unpaid) internship in Spain. Do I need to get a work (or study) VISA or should I just go as a tourist and leave the Schengen zone before the 90-day cutoff? I would like to travel in Europe past the 90-day limit, but could go to Asia and come back 3 months later. Any advice on what kind of VISA I need, especially since my itinerary for other European countries is not set right now?

wanderingdev · Answer

except in the UK. do not ever tell them you’re doing any form of work or you’ll likely be denied.

kathrynoh · Answer

Thanks, I was wondering if it’d be so difficult going to the UK if you are from another Commonwealth country.

whereskristin · Answer

That’s true; they are super strict there and I know people who’ve been deported for saying they’re going there (specifically) for some kind of work. I’m always going just to visit friends and family or for touristic reasons so I say that, but if they ask what I do for work I still say I work online, or I’m a consultant, or I own my own business, etc.

harris · Answer

UK is not in the Schengen (even though they’re not in the EU).

wanderingdev · Answer

depends on whether you want to be legal or not.  you don’t have to go all the way to asia, you just need to leave schengen.

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